Hornady Superformance™ Rifle Ammunition field reports?
- Thread starter Rosebud
- Start date
If you follow up on post #15 it is obvious there are some contentious opinions based on real life observations that seem to refute hornadys claims about the super cartridges.
The old truism 'If it looks too good to be true, it probably is' still seems to apply in most real world situations.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Northeast Ontario
Of course people who buy factory ammo dont' have to worry about being able to use the brass a second , third , fourth time etc. Im sure pressure has to be up there.....that being said I would buy some and test it over the chrony . Measure case head expansion etc etc.
Time and technology march on. It is a Reloder 17 style powder which really does give velocity bumps. See:
w ww.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html
"In the case of Alliant's new Reloder 17 (RL17), we were truly amazed by the enhanced velocities this powder offers compared to other propellants."
"but that still means that RL17 can boost your max velocity by over 200 fps.
That's a huge increase, a monumental gain in velocity. We've never seen anything like this--where one powder offers such a dramatic increase in max velocity over other "preferred" powders used by precision shooters."
Unfortunately Reloder 17 is a fairly slow burning powder, but it's only a matter of time until they have a .223 speed variant (my particular interest). May put a stake in the heart of the "is a .223 enough for deer/bear" threads. OK maybe not
w ww.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html
"In the case of Alliant's new Reloder 17 (RL17), we were truly amazed by the enhanced velocities this powder offers compared to other propellants."
"but that still means that RL17 can boost your max velocity by over 200 fps.
That's a huge increase, a monumental gain in velocity. We've never seen anything like this--where one powder offers such a dramatic increase in max velocity over other "preferred" powders used by precision shooters."
Unfortunately Reloder 17 is a fairly slow burning powder, but it's only a matter of time until they have a .223 speed variant (my particular interest). May put a stake in the heart of the "is a .223 enough for deer/bear" threads. OK maybe not
I've only tried RL17 in my 375 RUger, and I did indeed get higher velocity than any other powder I've tried. Accuracy was not as good as H4350, and I had no real RL-17 data to ensure my loads were safe so I discontinued for now (no pressure signs but that doesn't mean anything)
Next I will try in my 300WSM, but accuracy is more important than velocity, so it remains to be seen if I will use RL17 much.
Next I will try in my 300WSM, but accuracy is more important than velocity, so it remains to be seen if I will use RL17 much.
That is what I basically did, and got good velicity and accuracy at 100 yards, but at 300 yards the H4350 was noticeably more accurate.
Not only is that very dangerous- since a person has no way of knowing what they will end up with- but it is also totally unnecessary. We have powders that will do just about anything that can be done, no need to mix things up
Ooooh, secret voodoo powders...
This is a pretty bold statement from Hornady:
I would like to see their research data on how they are increasing velocity that much, without ANY increase in pressures.
Not sure I want to drive an SST any faster than I'm already loading...
so you think that the technology behind internal ballistics has peaked?
Agreed with Gatehouse and the others; it's MARKETING.
Have a look at Alliant website and you'll find the RL17 is not that magic; If it was "magic", then, don't worry, they would have produce top-speed velocities; but, in fact espcially in smaller cases, like the '06, it ain't do much better than any other of the H4350/IMR4350/W760/H414 burning rate of powders... but it may be a bit "better" with the chubby cases... but, still 100 fps is no big advantage...
Also, if the pressures were so low and the powder would produce so super velocities, why do they don't show up on Alliant publications? Because it's not as magic as it may look - I don't say it's not a good product, I just say it's ain't revolution yet.
Then, I'd be really curious to see strain gauge readings on those marvelous loads... I think it would show a big part of the truth.
Have a look at Alliant website and you'll find the RL17 is not that magic; If it was "magic", then, don't worry, they would have produce top-speed velocities; but, in fact espcially in smaller cases, like the '06, it ain't do much better than any other of the H4350/IMR4350/W760/H414 burning rate of powders... but it may be a bit "better" with the chubby cases... but, still 100 fps is no big advantage...
Also, if the pressures were so low and the powder would produce so super velocities, why do they don't show up on Alliant publications? Because it's not as magic as it may look - I don't say it's not a good product, I just say it's ain't revolution yet.
Then, I'd be really curious to see strain gauge readings on those marvelous loads... I think it would show a big part of the truth.
you really should read the following article:
w ww.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html
"German Salazar, using Bob Jensen's Oehler 43 equipped for pressure-testing, confirmed that the pressure curve for Reloder 17 is much "gentler" than that of other powders in the same burn range. After RL17 hits peak pressure, the energy level doesn't drop as rapidly as with other powders. So there is more energy pushing your bullet for a longer time. Since pressure drops off more slowly, you can achieve more velocity for a given peak pressure."
.308 with 185gr Lapua match bullet:
RL17 once again showed a real advantage. At a maximum load of 47.0 grains of RL17, we saw 2701 fps at 54,400 psi. This was a fairly full charge with a bit of powder compression so we didn’t go further although the pressure was still well below max.
Time pressure graph for Hornady "Superfomance". Note the area under the curve (higher total energy transferred) and the peak pressure (no increase):
w ww.hornady.com/assets/templates/site/images/superformance_bgchart.JPG
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You should really read the "5th Prpellant Profiles".... I don't see there any "extraordinary performances".. and why does Alliant did not publish those magical datas?? I'm sure that if it was so wonderful, they'd take a big chance on advertizing it A LOT;
Instead, here's what they choose to publish (from Alliant website);
308 Winchester /Speer 150 gr BTSP /Case Federal / OAL min 2.8" /Barrel 24"/ Primer Fed 210/ Reloader 17 /50 gr / 2,763 fps
308 Winchester / Speer 165 gr BTSP/ Case Federal / OAL min 2.8" / Barrel 24"/ Primer Fed 210 / Reloader 17/ 50gr / 2,739 fps
308 Winchester / Speer 180 gr BTSP/ Case Federal / OAL min 2.8" / Barrel 22"/ Primer Fed 210 / Reloader 17 / 48.7gr / 2,641 fps
Quite average, isn't it???
So tell me why the H**l a manufacturer would not provide those super duper datas(??? - if they are realistic, of course) instead of bringing the performance to a "normal" level?????? They aren't stupid, ya know.
BTW, a MAP of 54 400 PSI is the "commercial loading" pressure used for the magnum calibers (64 000 PSI). Commercial (SAFE as per SAAMI) loading for the .308 Win usually don't run over 52 000 PSI (the top of the yellow zone, in Quickload).
Instead, here's what they choose to publish (from Alliant website);
308 Winchester /Speer 150 gr BTSP /Case Federal / OAL min 2.8" /Barrel 24"/ Primer Fed 210/ Reloader 17 /50 gr / 2,763 fps
308 Winchester / Speer 165 gr BTSP/ Case Federal / OAL min 2.8" / Barrel 24"/ Primer Fed 210 / Reloader 17/ 50gr / 2,739 fps
308 Winchester / Speer 180 gr BTSP/ Case Federal / OAL min 2.8" / Barrel 22"/ Primer Fed 210 / Reloader 17 / 48.7gr / 2,641 fps
Quite average, isn't it???
So tell me why the H**l a manufacturer would not provide those super duper datas(??? - if they are realistic, of course) instead of bringing the performance to a "normal" level?????? They aren't stupid, ya know.
BTW, a MAP of 54 400 PSI is the "commercial loading" pressure used for the magnum calibers (64 000 PSI). Commercial (SAFE as per SAAMI) loading for the .308 Win usually don't run over 52 000 PSI (the top of the yellow zone, in Quickload).
any informed handloader would know that RL17/4350 is too slow burning in a 308 Win to get max velocity.
