How 'bout some Lee sporter rifle #### (seeing as how every other make has their own)
- Thread starter jamesharrison
- Start date
Jamesharrison,
I can't see your pictures for some reason, but in the spirit of the thread I have a Lee Speed to show. Its not mine, I'm holding it for a New Zealand friend until he either comes and gets it or hell freezes over, whichever comes first. Its marked Cogswell and Harrison, Bond Street and Strand London. He tells me to take it out and shoot something interesting with it; I should do it while I can still see those tiny sights.
I can't see your pictures for some reason, but in the spirit of the thread I have a Lee Speed to show. Its not mine, I'm holding it for a New Zealand friend until he either comes and gets it or hell freezes over, whichever comes first. Its marked Cogswell and Harrison, Bond Street and Strand London. He tells me to take it out and shoot something interesting with it; I should do it while I can still see those tiny sights.
My father had a beauty of a 303 LE when I was a kid. Deep red wood that looked like rosewood, fine sporter leaf rear sight, sporter front sight. I'm convinced it was either a factory sporting rifle or a very good between the wars conversion. He loaned it out and it disappeared in an alcoholic haze with the borrower.
Shellshucker:
Well, if you would have utilized a Number 1 or a Long Lee or even a C.L.L.M. or C.L.L.E. action for your build & did it up in .444 Marlin, or .40-70 Sharps Straight, or .405 W.C.F., or .375 2 1/2", or even .35 W.C.F., you'd be in the general ball-park, as a stopping rifle, but I'm not sure about .45ACP, although I suppose you might be able to rechamber it to something on the 9.3x74R case, shortened & blown out.
Mike Web
You are correct, sir!
Dogleg:
Beautiful Number 2 Pattern High Velocity Sporting Rifle. Was it made by B.S.A.Co. or by L.S.A.Co.Ld.?
Rugdoc:
It sounds very much like a factory "Lee Speed" type sporting rifle. The red wood was actually old Pre-War (Pre First World War, that is) French walnut, likely stained with red root (alkanet root) oil, as most of them were.
You know it amazes me, although it should not anymore, that some people who have nothing to add to the topic at hand, just add a non-relevant comment / photo, or both, presumably to up their post count, or because they have nothing better to do, or cannot find a post they are interested in, or simply know nothing of the subject matter at hand, but quickly reveal their ignorance of the subject by posting what they post!
OK, enough rant for today. Here's an Army & Navy Co-operative Society Limited Number 1 Pattern High Velocity Sporting Rifle, built by Birmingham Small Arms Company, while Mr. Jon Speed's Patent was still in effect. Note the B.S.A.Co. patent stalking safety.
I apologize for the poor quality of the photo.
Well, if you would have utilized a Number 1 or a Long Lee or even a C.L.L.M. or C.L.L.E. action for your build & did it up in .444 Marlin, or .40-70 Sharps Straight, or .405 W.C.F., or .375 2 1/2", or even .35 W.C.F., you'd be in the general ball-park, as a stopping rifle, but I'm not sure about .45ACP, although I suppose you might be able to rechamber it to something on the 9.3x74R case, shortened & blown out.
Mike Web
You are correct, sir!
Dogleg:
Beautiful Number 2 Pattern High Velocity Sporting Rifle. Was it made by B.S.A.Co. or by L.S.A.Co.Ld.?
Rugdoc:
It sounds very much like a factory "Lee Speed" type sporting rifle. The red wood was actually old Pre-War (Pre First World War, that is) French walnut, likely stained with red root (alkanet root) oil, as most of them were.
You know it amazes me, although it should not anymore, that some people who have nothing to add to the topic at hand, just add a non-relevant comment / photo, or both, presumably to up their post count, or because they have nothing better to do, or cannot find a post they are interested in, or simply know nothing of the subject matter at hand, but quickly reveal their ignorance of the subject by posting what they post!
OK, enough rant for today. Here's an Army & Navy Co-operative Society Limited Number 1 Pattern High Velocity Sporting Rifle, built by Birmingham Small Arms Company, while Mr. Jon Speed's Patent was still in effect. Note the B.S.A.Co. patent stalking safety.
I apologize for the poor quality of the photo.
Attachments
Last edited:
Attachments
Last edited:
Here's an interesting one, which appears to be a later Number 3 Pattern High Velocity Sporting Rifle (no full-length barrel rib, the only engraving being Alex. Martin, GLASGOW & ABERDEEN on the top of the charger bridge, with gutta-percha fore-arm tip and grip cap. It has a B.S.A.Co. commercial C.L.L.E. pattern action, complete to the flattened swept-forward bolt handle, 6 round "fish-belly" magazine, with commercial B.S.A.Co. barrel (stacked rifles on knox-form of barrel):
Don't worry; the receiver is NOT drilled & tapped. It simply has a no-drill ATI scope base mounted on it, which carries a Made in Japan 2-7x32 scope with German Number 1 reticule in it, courtesy of WhyNot?
Don't worry; the receiver is NOT drilled & tapped. It simply has a no-drill ATI scope base mounted on it, which carries a Made in Japan 2-7x32 scope with German Number 1 reticule in it, courtesy of WhyNot?
Here's another late one. A commercial pattern Number 1 Mk. III action, with a B.S.A.Co. commercial barrel, also having the Cogswell & Harrison retail markings on the top of the barrel aft of the rear sight. It carries pre-1954 London proof marks. The bolt, missing in the photograph, has the flattened, swept-forward handle of the L.E.C., but has the Mk. III safety. It also carries a no-drill ATI scope base, upon which sits a Schmidt & Bender 1.5-6x42 scope with a number 1 reticule in Leupold QRW rings. Darned accurate with Hornady 0.308" 220 grain RNSP-IL bullets, likely because of its very tight bore.
Not enough room left in my photobucket account for all of my close-up photos of the rifles' engraving and wood-grain, I'm afraid.
My apologies.
My apologies.
Quite likely.
My handle there is oldgunnut
My handle there is oldgunnut
Wow! Some gorgeous old rifles! Thanks for sharing. 
The best I could do is a nice old 1893 LSA Co that started of as MLE, then rebarreled to Enfield rifling, then upgraded to CLLE by Vickers and Maxim & Sons, then sportered by BSA.
The best I could do is a nice old 1893 LSA Co that started of as MLE, then rebarreled to Enfield rifling, then upgraded to CLLE by Vickers and Maxim & Sons, then sportered by BSA.
No. 4c “Bush” Pattern
Does anyone have a picture of this rifle?
- Available in .303” for L11.15s in the 1935 catalogue.
- plain round barrel
- Chequered sporter style rounded semi pistol grip butt-stock and chequered fore-end.
- plain finish
- Flat top and swept-forward bolt handle
- OAL 41 ½” shown in the 1935 catalogue.
- Barrel 20 ½” long.
- Back Sight: 100 yards, fixed; folding leaves for 200 and 300 yards, and tangent from 400 to 1,000 yards.
- Front Sight: Bead Fitted with Cole’s Holdfast Foresight Protector.
- Magazine: 10-shot magazine.
- Safe: Fitted with Enfield military safety catch.
- LOP 13” (1919 catalogue) 14 ¼” in 1935 catalogue.
- Action: L.E. charger loading action.
Does anyone have a picture of this rifle?
kjohn:
Don't be so sure you don't have a B.S.A.Co. original sporter, retailed by Vickers.
Can you post pictures?
homeboy1
send me your email & I'll send you one & a catalogue page.
Don't be so sure you don't have a B.S.A.Co. original sporter, retailed by Vickers.
Can you post pictures?
homeboy1
send me your email & I'll send you one & a catalogue page.
SuperCu
Very nice. I think, however, because of the Long Lee military pattern rear sight, vice the B.S.A.Co. cape sight (ie. 1 standing leaf, 2 folding leaves & a tangent sight from 400-1000 yds.), the military style brass butt-plate the shape of the butt and the style of the front sight, versus the offered & catalogued styles on the factory sporting rifles, it was quite likely one of the B.S.A.Co. manufactured Territorial or Volunteer Pattern rifles, which were never military issued, thus did not have any military proof marks, that was later sporterized by any number of individual firms or individuals, sometime after 1900. Given the length of the barrel in the photo it was also not one of the sporting or volunteer Officer's Pattern carbines, which did have those sights & butt-plates, albeit with a 19" or 21" barrel fitted.
The commercial "fish-belly" magazine your rifle wears is quite valuable (but then again, they're now asking $70.00 for a normal mil-surp LE magazine!!!) and is, in fact, an original factory High Velocity Sporting Rifle magazine by B.S.A.Co. (the ones manufactured by L.S.A.Co.Ld. are shaped differently; more like the military L.E.C. magazines). I can't tell from the photo if it is a Metford or Enfield-rifled barrel. If you can upload a photo or two of the proof marks, I can give you an approximate date of manufacture.
Don't despair if there is some cordite frosting in the bore, as a number of Lee Speeds previously in my care also had that affliction, yet shot surprisingly well with flat base cup & core sporting bullets, especially Hornady (.312"), Hawk (.314) or SR Custom (.314"), despite the fact that a couple had groove measurements of .317". If you want to shoot cast, slug your bore & order an appropriate size Accurate Moulds mould.
Very nice. I think, however, because of the Long Lee military pattern rear sight, vice the B.S.A.Co. cape sight (ie. 1 standing leaf, 2 folding leaves & a tangent sight from 400-1000 yds.), the military style brass butt-plate the shape of the butt and the style of the front sight, versus the offered & catalogued styles on the factory sporting rifles, it was quite likely one of the B.S.A.Co. manufactured Territorial or Volunteer Pattern rifles, which were never military issued, thus did not have any military proof marks, that was later sporterized by any number of individual firms or individuals, sometime after 1900. Given the length of the barrel in the photo it was also not one of the sporting or volunteer Officer's Pattern carbines, which did have those sights & butt-plates, albeit with a 19" or 21" barrel fitted.
The commercial "fish-belly" magazine your rifle wears is quite valuable (but then again, they're now asking $70.00 for a normal mil-surp LE magazine!!!) and is, in fact, an original factory High Velocity Sporting Rifle magazine by B.S.A.Co. (the ones manufactured by L.S.A.Co.Ld. are shaped differently; more like the military L.E.C. magazines). I can't tell from the photo if it is a Metford or Enfield-rifled barrel. If you can upload a photo or two of the proof marks, I can give you an approximate date of manufacture.
Don't despair if there is some cordite frosting in the bore, as a number of Lee Speeds previously in my care also had that affliction, yet shot surprisingly well with flat base cup & core sporting bullets, especially Hornady (.312"), Hawk (.314) or SR Custom (.314"), despite the fact that a couple had groove measurements of .317". If you want to shoot cast, slug your bore & order an appropriate size Accurate Moulds mould.
Last edited:
Well, it looks like the top of the knox-form has been ground off.
I see it was retailed by C.W. Andrews, a Birmingham "gun-maker" at 13 Bath Street (1891-1914) with London retail premises on Great Winchester Street.
The proof marks are Birmingham 1896-1904 pattern, so we have an 8 year period when it was manufactured.
The barrel is original to the receiver.
The trigger-guard is a L.E.C. one, as it has a slot cut out at the front for the carbine magazine's retaining chain link.
Someone has shortened the barrel & re-crowned it.
It appears to be Enfield rifling, rather than the more rounded Metford style of rifling.
It is missing the magazine cut-off.
I can't tell if the bolt matches the receiver or not, but the cocking piece doesn't match one or the other.
It used to have a volley sight but it was ground off.
Andrews, like almost every other "gunmaker" bought in firearms from the real makers and had them marked, or marked them themselves, with their name. B.S.A.Co. made 95% of the Lee Speeds, while L.S.A.Co.Ld. made the rest.
I've owned 3 Andrews & all but 1 were like yours; the remaining one was a #1 Pattern (engraved with a full-length rib)
What else would you like to know?
I see it was retailed by C.W. Andrews, a Birmingham "gun-maker" at 13 Bath Street (1891-1914) with London retail premises on Great Winchester Street.
The proof marks are Birmingham 1896-1904 pattern, so we have an 8 year period when it was manufactured.
The barrel is original to the receiver.
The trigger-guard is a L.E.C. one, as it has a slot cut out at the front for the carbine magazine's retaining chain link.
Someone has shortened the barrel & re-crowned it.
It appears to be Enfield rifling, rather than the more rounded Metford style of rifling.
It is missing the magazine cut-off.
I can't tell if the bolt matches the receiver or not, but the cocking piece doesn't match one or the other.
It used to have a volley sight but it was ground off.
Andrews, like almost every other "gunmaker" bought in firearms from the real makers and had them marked, or marked them themselves, with their name. B.S.A.Co. made 95% of the Lee Speeds, while L.S.A.Co.Ld. made the rest.
I've owned 3 Andrews & all but 1 were like yours; the remaining one was a #1 Pattern (engraved with a full-length rib)
What else would you like to know?
