Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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You mean a small handful?
How long has the FN FS2000 been out of production?
- Thread starter evolture
- Start date
You mean a small handful?
More than just a small handful...Saudi Arabia ordered 55,000 for example. Have a look here. While it's a far cry from the AR15 FOW it does have actual military users, unlike rifles like the XCR, SL-8, or the MR1. Other than the barrel, which is an inch and a bit longer, and the fire control group, of course, the FS2000 is identical to the military F2000 version, one of the few such rifles in Canada.
Ya, this adds to the uncertainty. I think FNH is still trying to decide if they are going to keep it going or pull the plug -- unless they are just keeping the site up for information.
They haven't really come out one way or the other, just some reps that seem as confused as any potential buyers.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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A handful of SF users. Meaning there is a very small number of SF units that would willingly deploy with the FN2000. Kind of like the FNP90. Lots of SF units own them but they are very low down on the useful/operators choice ranking. Lets be honest, hiding the inner workings and forgetting the last round bolt hold open created a bullpup that is slower and more awkward to use than normal bullpups.
For sure, the FS2000 has its quirks. But there are actual military and SF units that deploy with the rifle, unlike the XCR, ACR, MR1, AR180, or the SL8. And the last round hold open wasn't "forgotten", it's part of the forward-ejecting design. And how are the inner workings more "hidden" than with a Tavor or AUG? I'm curious if you've ever fired an FS2000 (or Tavor or AUG), or are just you commenting based on what others have posted as "shortcomings". Other than mag changes, in what way is the FS2000 slower or more awkward than other bullpups?
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Vancouver Island
Tavor, Aug, SA80, AR and pretty much every other issued rifle since the AK47 and including the POS SKS do not require a user to guess why their rifle has stopped going bang, all they need to do is look at the ejection port. If your drill is rifle stops, jam a new mag into it and rack the action you are fine, until that does not fix the problem and you are opening a plastic cover and rummaging around in a clock trying to get things moving. The 2 loudest sounds you will ever hear is a click when there should be a bang and a bang when there should have been a click. If you rifle will close on an empty chamber you are going to hear the first, and if it is a PITA to check the chamber you may very well hear the 2nd. Neat rifle that like the P90 answers a number of questions no one really needed answered.
Seeing as the SL8 is simply the accurate target version of the G36 with it's unsuccessful military sales, as they only sold them to the militaries of Croatia, Germany, Indonesia, Jordan, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Malaysia, Mongolia, Montenegro, Norway, Philippines, Portugal, Republic of China, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Slovakia, Spain, Thailand, United Kingdom, Uruguay.
Perhaps if they sell another 250,000 to another 22 countries for their armed forces it would count.
Moe
r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Lol MP5 entered service mid 60s, G3 late 50s, and ak47 in late 40s. Something designed and built in the late 90s and deployed after 2000 should be better than all of those. The F2000 is inheriting the quirks of bullpup design to start with, and on top making access to the inner workings of the rifle difficult, the gun looks neat, and the concept of keeping crap out of it so it performs is an interesting theory, but its becoming less and less popular and the belgians dumping them for SCARs so quickly is a telling story, and it failed very early on in the norweigian military trials. Slovakia doesn't have the money for a new procurement, they will stick with that lot of F2000 for a while.
And if we were to relegate the arguement for the fn f2000, what does it do that an aug does not? The easier to access bolt and carrier group means it's easier to clear malfunctions. The fn under a bad lockup is going to cost you time. Strictly from a military procurement point of view, because I fully understand they are prohibited here. The aug has a solid service record for many years, and more accessories set up for it already. And I don't know about you but I am quite sure the tavor is a military rifle as well.
For the casual plinker buy whatever suits your fancy.
But if you want to argue the performance metrics of this rifle, be it against other bullpups or other conventional rifles, it honestly isn't that top shelf. If you want to talk about it being close to mil spec, the colt canada rifles are quite mil spec guns, And in case you forgot as unobtanium as they are FBI semi auto lower G36 fullsize is non restricted. And as CSC sold a semi auto 416(no not a mr223, an actual 416). Can't go more milspec than those 3.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Yes I have. As well as every other rifle you have mentioned. MP5 is/was a dead end, so is/was the G3 and don't get me started on the AK.
I would be disappointed and a little shocked if FN were not using the F2000 as lessons learned for their next kick-at-the-can in the bull pup market, and working toward a better model within their R&D.
The only real shortcomings of the F2000 that I saw was the stock set not being somewhat modular (LOP needs to be adjustable, as should the pistol grip, and stocks) and the ease with which a user could, and how they access the chamber for stoppages.
The magwell 'gasket' seal, charge handle and bolt hold open are (I believe) easy fixes, and really just niggly little faults people tend to focus on.
As a 'gun guy' I really did like the rifle. It offers a pretty neat little package with interesting design concepts. I found it comfortable, although a little fat. Accuracy was good for what it is, and shooting it was a pleasurable experience - exceedingly good for a bull pup design. It was very reliable too (the only stoppage being a planned, self induced double feed made by deliberately short stroking first round feeding).
As a 'shooter' who has used guns as part of my profession? - not a chance would I carry this, given the choice.
The only real shortcomings of the F2000 that I saw was the stock set not being somewhat modular (LOP needs to be adjustable, as should the pistol grip, and stocks) and the ease with which a user could, and how they access the chamber for stoppages.
The magwell 'gasket' seal, charge handle and bolt hold open are (I believe) easy fixes, and really just niggly little faults people tend to focus on.
As a 'gun guy' I really did like the rifle. It offers a pretty neat little package with interesting design concepts. I found it comfortable, although a little fat. Accuracy was good for what it is, and shooting it was a pleasurable experience - exceedingly good for a bull pup design. It was very reliable too (the only stoppage being a planned, self induced double feed made by deliberately short stroking first round feeding).
As a 'shooter' who has used guns as part of my profession? - not a chance would I carry this, given the choice.
THE_SASQUATCH
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- The Forest
Hey Daver_II - where'd you get yours? Gunbroker also?
I believe a number of countries listed on Wiki did not go past the trials phase with the F2000 and at least 2 have since replaced them (india with the Tavor & Belgians with SCAR's). I think it's safe to say the design has some shortfalls and design issues and is pretty much a dead platform now.
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r34skyline
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Till the sbr 556 guns were sorted out the mp5 was the weapon of choice for the doorkickers, and as for the G3 that and the FAL were the two x51 rifles to have before people realized 556 does people in quite well enough.
And let me guess you will regurgitate that aks can't hit the broad side of a barn?
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
So the MP5 (and every other pistol caliber primary) has been dead for a 2 or 3 decades, can't even get spare parts for them anymore either. About the same for the FAL, G3 and M14. As for the AK, even the Russian SF is running ARs.
Who the #### cares?
The FS2000, Tavor, Aug, G36, MR1, G3, MP5, MP7, PS90, and most other guns out there are very well engineered and build firearms.
Does it work? Yes...
is it better? Who knows?
Does it go bang when you need it to? Yes....
You can claim that one rifle is more reliable or ergonomic or whatever, but at the end of the day a well designed and well maintained rifle will always work (unless you have an ammo issue)
And for ergonomics? that varies person to person.
So, is the FS2000 top end? Most people say yes,
Does Bolt hold open matter? No, after all a gun designed without that feature doesn't miss it.
(kind of like the fact that most sports cars don't have back seats... I am sure the owners are ok with that)
The FS2000, Tavor, Aug, G36, MR1, G3, MP5, MP7, PS90, and most other guns out there are very well engineered and build firearms.
Does it work? Yes...
is it better? Who knows?
Does it go bang when you need it to? Yes....
You can claim that one rifle is more reliable or ergonomic or whatever, but at the end of the day a well designed and well maintained rifle will always work (unless you have an ammo issue)
And for ergonomics? that varies person to person.
So, is the FS2000 top end? Most people say yes,
Does Bolt hold open matter? No, after all a gun designed without that feature doesn't miss it.
(kind of like the fact that most sports cars don't have back seats... I am sure the owners are ok with that)
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
It is more like a 2015 model Tacoma not having a gas gauge or park brake, and Toyota making excuses for the lack of a common feature. Can you imagine a semi auto pistol coming to market in the next 12 months and not having a last round hold open?
