How much difference does the gun make?

grimreefer

grimreefer

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I'm currently shooting a Walther P99 9mm for action pistol / 3gun. I don't have experience with any other pistol for competition, but I know I want to stay within Production class. My fundamentals are good, and I've done well for my limited competition experience and am quite satisfied at this point. I am more than happy to put in the time and effort to excell with my current setup, or any setup for that matter.

However, I recently walked into my LGS and handled the CZ Shadow 2 which is more than DOUBLE the weight and a lower bore axis than my Walther. That has to make a difference in recoil and speed, right? How much of a difference would this make to an experienced competition shooter?
 
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If it ain't broke... don't fix it. If you are happy with what you have stick with it. Spend the money you were going to spend for a new pistol on ammunition. Then go out and practice, practice, practice some more. Make sure it is good practice.
 
Really not that much. Once you have the fundamentals down pat, it all really comes down to you.
Whether I run a Tang or STI in Standard is pretty much irrelevant.

It's the thousands of hours of dry fire practice and hundreds of rounds a week on the range, every week that gets you to the top of your class or the match.
A nice gun is nice to have though ;)
 
TACTICAL111 said:
Really not that much. Once you have the fundamentals down pat, it all really comes down to you.
Whether I run a Tang or STI in Standard is pretty much irrelevant.

It's the thousands of hours of dry fire practice and hundreds of rounds a week on the range, every week that gets you to the top of your class or the match.
A nice gun is nice to have though ;)
Click to expand...

I was probably wanting some justification for a Shadow 2 purchase... :)

After seeing the answers here (cheeky buggers...), I realize I asked the wrong question. I was more wanting to know if there was a significant difference in split times between a lightweight polymer pistol and heavier weight pistols that are designed to to reduce recoil, in the hands of an experienced competitior.
 
grimreefer said:
I was probably wanting some justification for a Shadow 2 purchase... :)

After seeing the answers here (cheeky buggers...), I realize I asked the wrong question. I was more wanting to know if there was a significant difference in split times between a lightweight polymer pistol and heavier weight pistols that are designed to to reduce recoil, in the hands of an experienced competitior.
Click to expand...

You reaaally want that CZ, don't you?
By the way you phrased your question, then, yes, in the hands of an EXPERIENCED shooter, a HEAVIER pure competition pistol with an excellent trigger will outshoot/ out time a LIGHTWEIGHT polymer pistol with an inferior trigger. You got your answer, now go buy that -02!!

:)
 
Buy the CZ... it's what you want.

Practice practice practice.

I much prefer lighter, polymer, striker fired pistols myself. However, having shot a lot of rounds through a friends Shadow 2, it's a great pistol. IMO you will be happy with the purchase for a very long time.
 
The gun makes all the difference in the world.... They've come so far that you practically don't even need to pull the trigger anymore.

In all seriousness though, the Shadow 2 is a very flat shooting gun and very accurate. At less that's what I noticed.... The trigger is a bit heavy though and the gun itself is very heavy
 
MangledMoose said:
Buy it if you want. If you think splits and transitions are going to win you a match then you have bigger issues then what gun you shoot.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm new to competition, but I can tell that splits and transitions are a pretty big part of the equation. Of course if my stage planning, execution, fundamentals/accuracy, reloads, and movement are crap, then sure...splits and transitions don't mean much. I am not under the impression that the tool itself will win a match.
 
MangledMoose said:
Buy it if you want. If you think splits and transitions are going to win you a match then you have bigger issues then what gun you shoot.
Click to expand...

If you think improving your splits and transitions WON'T win you a match then you have a flawed understanding of competitive shooting. Transitions, whether between targets or between firearms in multigun disciplines, are absolutely key! Good consistent splits are also very important.

If you are shooting a single gun discipline a key is to work on your target transitions until they are as close as possible to your splits.......that is a basic building block to improving overall speed.

Foot speed and all that is important but I have seen a lot of older guys kick the crap out of younger guys just because of their splits and transitions (of either variety)......and how they use the time between target engagements.

John
 
grimreefer said:
Okay, I'm new to competition, but I can tell that splits and transitions are a pretty big part of the equation. Of course if my stage planning, execution, fundamentals/accuracy, reloads, and movement are crap, then sure...splits and transitions don't mean much. I am not under the impression that the tool itself will win a match.
Click to expand...

Everything taken in isolation is huge. It's once you combine things together that things matter. Your last sentence there is absolutely correct.

John in B.C. said:
If you think improving your splits and transitions WON'T win you a match then you have a flawed understanding of competitive shooting. Transitions, whether between targets or between firearms in multigun disciplines, are absolutely key! Good consistent splits are also very important.

If you are shooting a single gun discipline a key is to work on your target transitions until they are as close as possible to your splits.......that is a basic building block to improving overall speed.

Foot speed and all that is important but I have seen a lot of older guys kick the crap out of younger guys just because of their splits and transitions (of either variety)......and how they use the time between target engagements.

John
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct on that last part there (that I have bolded).

"consistent splits" is a stupid concept. Your splits are determined by a multitude of things - including how good of a grip you have, how your sights are reacting, distance from target, the difficulty of the shot based on body positioning, hard cover, and potential no shoots, whether you are moving or static, and even just a mental calculation of how much accuracy you can give up for speed given a stage's hit factor.

Just because I can easily nail 0.14 splits on a 7 yard static bill drill doesn't mean that I will be doing that on a 32 round 5 HF stage. To think so, is truly not understanding the game.

As for the idea of "target transitions..... as close as possible to your splits"... I don't even understand what that means. Could you explain?
 
Well since you consider the advice I offer that is based on my experience....no I wouldn't care to explain anything to you.

John

Unregistered_ said:
Everything taken in isolation is huge. It's once you combine things together that things matter. Your last sentence there is absolutely correct.



You're absolutely correct on that last part there (that I have bolded).

"consistent splits" is a stupid concept. Your splits are determined by a multitude of things - including how good of a grip you have, how your sights are reacting, distance from target, the difficulty of the shot based on body positioning, hard cover, and potential no shoots, whether you are moving or static, and even just a mental calculation of how much accuracy you can give up for speed given a stage's hit factor.

Just because I can easily nail 0.14 splits on a 7 yard static bill drill doesn't mean that I will be doing that on a 32 round 5 HF stage. To think so, is truly not understanding the game.

As for the idea of "target transitions..... as close as possible to your splits"... I don't even understand what that means. Could you explain?
Click to expand...
 
grimreefer said:
I was probably wanting some justification for a Shadow 2 purchase... :)

After seeing the answers here (cheeky buggers...), I realize I asked the wrong question. I was more wanting to know if there was a significant difference in split times between a lightweight polymer pistol and heavier weight pistols that are designed to to reduce recoil, in the hands of an experienced competitior.
Click to expand...

Split times are only as fast you can see the sights.

I probably have some of the slowest split times around. Most of my competition probably won't believe me, but by best splits are probably .18, and get up to .30 on targets past 15 yards. Ask me if that's hurt my competitiveness. :D
 
I could see myself selling my g34 in the future to switch to something like a CZ shadow... Or almost any other hammer fired handgun. Almost every other handgun i ve handled on the market feels better in my hands than that g34 does....
 
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