How much jump do you use?

[Oscar Makonka]

Does this problem apply to Savages as well? From my reading about setting headspace on a barrel, I've only seen recommendations to remove the ejector.


Also, I have another more basic question about this process: Do you first find the right powder load, and then tune seating depth? Or does it sometime need to be the other way around? So many variables.... I'm hoping mag length works well in my rifle, because I want to use the mag.

Savages headspace by adjusting the barrel nut and moving the barrel back or forth. Ideally , yes if the ejector plunger can be easily removed then by all means remove it, but generally it isn't that easy and dosen't provide enough resistance that you can't still feel when headspace contact is reached.
Headspace dosen't have much to do with bullet seating depth it's not the same thing as headspace. In the case of finding when the bullet touches the lands it would also be ideal if the ejector plunger is removed as Ron AKA mentioned but it won't generally cause enough resistance to prevent feeling when the bullet firmly contacts the lands. When trying to find the lands with the method illustrated in the video the firing pin and spring needs to be removed to allow the bolt to freely fall without the resistance of the pin spring being compressed when the bolt cocks causing the bolt lugs to drag against their seats.

In the case of model winchester model 70's and other mauser action style rifles that have a three position safety that blocks the firing pin allowing the bolt to free wheel when the safety is set in the middle position firing pin removal isn't necessary.

As far as load tuning most folks usually find the powder load that gives the best accuracy then they play with the seating depth. If your limited by magazine length then most folks usually start with the longest seating depth the mag allows, find the powder charge it likes best at that depth they will play with moving the seating depth deeper to see if there are any improvements. You can do it either way, most just prefer to do powder adjustment first as changes in powder charge often trumps bullet seating depth effects.

 

[Ron AKA]

Watch the video Moose 284 posted and you will see why.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv-D1mEI514

With the firing spring in a remington the bolt cannot close freely without resistance because the pin sear catches on the trigger sear and the firing pin spring tension pulls back on the bolt causing the bolt lugs to bear on the lug seats which prevents the bolt from free wheeling to the closed position. Yes the plunger extractor in a remington pushes on the case slightly but not enough to stop the bolt from falling freely enough to do a test like what is illustrated in the video.

OK, thanks. I get it now. That method is highly dependent on feeling resistance on closing the bolt due to the bullet seating. I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical of the accuracy of that method. Ideally you want to keep seating depth error to less than 0.001-0.002". I just can't see taking the bolt apart every time I want to check seating depth. It changes as the throat burns, and you need a different depth for every single different bullet type you shoot. You also should check it with each new batch # of bullets.

On Agent Mango's post on when do you do it, I like to pick a velocity based on previous experience, and load some to 0.010" jam, 0.010" jump, and 0.020" jump. I test for group size. Then I use the best jam or jump to do the ladder testing to confirm best velocity. Last I check different jam/jumps of the best ladder test for the final tweak.

 

[agent_mango]

Got it, the charge is the first variable to experiment with.

Oscar, thanks for the explanation of why removing the firing pin is important. To my mind, I think removing the ejector is important for headspacing or finding the lands because the ejector will put some force on the bottom of the case. I watched a video of Savage bolt disassembly on youtube and it doesn't look terribly difficult. I think for headspacing my new barrel I will remove both the ejector and firing pin, but I don't know if I'd feel like going through the process every time I had to find the lands.

I've read some people remove the ejectors or cut down the ejector springs in single shot target action rifles. It would be less of a PITA if one only had to remove the firing pin before checking lands distance.

 

[AKD]

Hornady OAL gauge. Nothing beats it.

 

[DrXenon]

Hornady OAL gauge. Nothing beats it.

I see your Hornady OAL gauge and raise you a Sinclair Bullet Seating Depth Tool, which is the One True Way to do it.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/sid=68249/pid=35491/Product/SINCLAIR_SEATING_DEPTH_GAUGE

 

[AKD]

Ill give you a draw but not a win

 

[Oscar Makonka]

Oscar, thanks for the explanation of why removing the firing pin is important. To my mind, I think removing the ejector is important for headspacing or finding the lands because the ejector will put some force on the bottom of the case. I watched a video of Savage bolt disassembly on youtube and it doesn't look terribly difficult. I think for headspacing my new barrel I will remove both the ejector and firing pin, but I don't know if I'd feel like going through the process every time I had to find the lands.

I've read some people remove the ejectors or cut down the ejector springs in single shot target action rifles. It would be less of a PITA if one only had to remove the firing pin before checking lands distance.

Yes, that video is just one way to find the lands. It is time consuming, there are other ways. Only explaining why he removed the firing pin for that method.
Personally I use cases fireformed from my chambers threaded to use with the Hornady/Stony point tool and bullet depth comparitor.