Hunt Camp Woes

[DVXDUDE]

Its a sad time here on Ontario in regards to big game hunting at our hunt camp. First I'll give a bit of history with the camp.

We have owned it since 1990 in WMU49. We own 700 acres and surrounded my crown land and have 12 current members. Camp has 16 beds so is able to have 16 members but most we have had is 14. Age of members ranks from 30-80 years old. Majority or members are 60+ (only 3 of us under 40)

We have always had guests for the moose and deer hunt to pay for taxes and other expenses. We have never made money on the hunts, just covered our costs for the camp to keep everything a float.

Now.....we havnt had an adult moose tag in 5 years. Calf hunt every year with 10-12 guys usually getting a calf which ends up with about 10lbs of meat each. I dont agree with this and dont participate anymore)


Deer hunt we have 10-15 hunters every year(usually half members half guests) and we havnt shot a deer in 3 years (last good buck was 2011) we have beagles and we have enough guys to block and cover every spot possible and noone even SEEN deer sign the last year. 2017 last year I hunted as well and now just hunt that week at home. They seen 8 moose during the deer hunt, 5 different bulls forsure as well.

Most guests have lost interest now, Dont blame them as why pay 400-500$ a week for piss poor hunting. Even though we all enjoy the time away up north is pretty discouraging going out hunting when the game just isnt there.

So we are struggling to find guests to come hunting which means camp members are now paying more to keep the camp going and with the age of some members now they know it's not worth it and are giving their notice of selling their share. (Shares valued at 15000$ now) so every member that sells, other members are paying them off. So with dues and paying off shares being sold I'm paying around $3000 a year for the camp, and I don't hunt there anymore (gave up 2017 and hunt elsewhere now)

I'm 3rd youngest member so im the future of this camp but I dont have very high hopes. 15 years ago the camp had a plan of keep buying more land and we were in good shape to do so but not anymore.

I know of other camps in the same WMU in the same boat. The hunting just sucks and hunters are looking elsewhere.

We are debating to try a bear hunt one year instead of moose/deer. Then we are just baiting bears and other predators into our camp and there is already no shortage or these damn things. Moose and other animals have it hard enough as it is. Plus no one really wants to eat bear besides a few of us so no real motivation to do this. Plus it's a lot of work and $$ baiting

We want to keep this an HUNTING camp only, we have people interested in buying a share but they want to use our camp as a cottage, Not keep it as exclusive hunting camp only.

Sorry for the long rambling rant but I'm curious if anyone else is in the same boat, Costs and terrible hunting are killing our camp. Ontario seems like the most mismanaged province in regards to hunting. Every year it gets harder and more costly and we aren't getting any younger.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Calf hunt every year with 10-12 guys usually getting a calf which ends up with about 10lbs of meat each. I dont agree with this and dont participate anymore)


Kill all the game and there won't be any left. Always shake my head at is hunt camp thing. Seems to be no thought of management ?

Grizz

 

[Runningfool]

Similar situation in the camp in 50 that I’m not a member of but a guest for the deer hunt. Every year during our 10 days of deer hunting we see plenty of moose but no deer. Very little deer sign even, but plenty of wolf sign and of course shooting wolves is prohibited due to the ministry’s wisdom....moose hunters haven’t had a bull tag in many years and few are interested in going up to shoot a calf for reasons you mentioned...more ministry wisdom at work.

There are only 5-6 of us that go up during deer season and really the only reason we do is because we enjoy each other’s company and being up at camp so much - it sure ain’t for deer. During the many hours I sit or stalk the non-existent deer I too wonder about the future of the camp.

 

[DVXDUDE]

Calf hunt every year with 10-12 guys usually getting a calf which ends up with about 10lbs of meat each. I dont agree with this and dont participate anymore)


Kill all the game and there won't be any left. Always shake my head at is hunt camp thing. Seems to be no thought of management ?

Grizz

That's what I mean about mismanagement. Why do they cut adult tags back every year but give calf tags to EVERYONE that applies. If you dont buy a tag every year you were out of Pool A and then you have almost zero chance of getting an adult tag the next year. Like WTF, How does that make sense? Is almost like they want the moose population so low there wont be a hunting season soon. (Changed a bit this year but still not much better IMO)


Camps perspective, We cancel the moose hunt and 75% of members are gone and 95% of guests are gone. Might as well put the forsale signs up now. Such bull####, Even if we did stop hunting for a few years, Natives still moose hunt all year long and massacre them every chance they get.

 

[just having some fun]

Have you planted crops that will encurage wild life to stay year round ?

winter bedding yard ? Water ? food ?

Have you got rid if the predators that prey on the young

Do you have a bird population ... grouse ... Pheasant.. etc

 

[dimeN]

Id allow the cottage people in.. aslong as they are ok with hunting being the primary reason for the camp.. ( put in a clause that they can get kicked out if they are peta hippies )
.. with a few less hunters, theyll be less hunting pressure on the game and hopefully numbers recover

.. plant some fruit or nut trees.. stuff that deer like
.. makesure u have areas of young forest growth ... for buds n grass for deer
.it maybe that there are areas near by where food is more abundant and the game has moved over

Any good fishing in area... can rent out camp to fisherman aswell

Get your group together and brainstorm some solutions... n set up groups to handle remedies

My 2 cents

 

[mrmcneill]

I've been in the Ottawa area for about 5 years and I have always been wondering about options to hunt on land, as a lot of it is privately owned. Used to hunt on farmland with permission, but that was revoked when the couple divorced. All that aside, I'm glad to see there are hunt camps, but how does one either become a member, or even find hunt camps that are looking for members? Also are there camps set up for migratory bird season?

Thanks

 

[elimsprint]

Move to BC, I have deer right outside my door waiting for me to come out and play.

 

[hammering hank]

Similar situation in the camp in 50 that I’m not a member of but a guest for the deer hunt. Every year during our 10 days of deer hunting we see plenty of moose but no deer. Very little deer sign even, but plenty of wolf sign and of course shooting wolves is prohibited due to the ministry’s wisdom....moose hunters haven’t had a bull tag in many years and few are interested in going up to shoot a calf for reasons you mentioned...more ministry wisdom at work.

There are only 5-6 of us that go up during deer season and really the only reason we do is because we enjoy each other’s company and being up at camp so much - it sure ain’t for deer. During the many hours I sit or stalk the non-existent deer I too wonder about the future of the camp.

Wolf hunting prohibited??? Did something change as last i checked the surrounding area of algonquin you halfto buy a tag (wolf/coyote) which 2 are available per hunter per year 1 at a time. Ill need to double check this now.

Budy and i took over ownership of a camp in 53A, havent hunted it really much yet as we need to sort the decrepid camp out but the deer sign and moose looks very promising. Populations are typically cyclic and wish you well op, i hope you are able to figure out a solution. I wish we owned our camp in a way but sit on a ministry lup which is a drop in the bucket for annual fees.

 

[DVXDUDE]

Have you planted crops that will encurage wild life to stay year round ?

winter bedding yard ? Water ? food ?

Have you got rid if the predators that prey on the young

Do you have a bird population ... grouse ... Pheasant.. etc

We have shot 12 bears in the last 15 years ( 5 myself and my brother 3 baiting bears) all the rest have been during moose or deer hunts.

We planted 1000 white oak trees 15 years ago as we got a deal from a nursery. We walked around one spring and planted an oak in every pile of moose sh## we found. They are about 15 feet tall now and maybe in 40 years they will produce acorns??

We have made a small food plot before but had more bears feeding on it than deer.

Deer yard up in small pockets in this WMU and I have not personally seen a deer during the winter while. Snowmobiling or coyote/wolf hunting.

We have a decent grouse population and I see and hear them quite often but we dont hunt them at all up there.

Fishing is great up there with lots of lakes around but again we want hunters.


I keep telling members that hogs are coming and it's going to get good again some day LOL for now I'll keep dreaming.

We have had our area logged twice in the last 30 years. When we first bought it had one section of hardwoods logged. Then another 200 acres 5 years ago. The amount of small maples and oaks in that area now is astounding, Moose graze here all year round. You'd be hard pressed not to find a sapling that doesnt have buds eaten off it. I find it helped greatly.

I dont think we were hunting too hard in the last 30 years either. I know when we have adult tags we didnt calf hunt (unless had a cow tag and she has a calf) 4 other camps around that we have talked to and they are same way. We dont hear much shooting from them anymore either.

 

[smokeeter]

It's a combination of things, but the fact is that there are fewer deer. The last 4 winters have been brutal to the deer and attributed to many deer lost to winter kills. Not to mention little to no predator control, wolves and bear take a heavy toll on the deer and moose. The numbers are cyclical also and we are probably on a down swing. This is all difficult to accept but it's true, our gang in 47 would normally get close to 90% success on deer and always a moose if we were lucky enough to draw a tag ( but that's another problem), we managed 2 deer last yr. one the year before and skunked the yr before that.
Keep the faith, hopefully things will turn around. We have had times like this in the past just not a frequent.

 

[Jmcc]

what is wrong with cottagers?

as long as you are clear when the hunt is on - they are out...



as for deer, are you seeing signs of deer? poop, rubbings etc.

We moved from dogs to stands and it made a world of difference

 

[rifleman338]

We hunt WMU 54 & 56 and success on the deer hunt the last few years has been pretty bad. Moose on the other hand has been 100% with whatever adult tags we get were filled within the first day and a half. The property we hunt encompasses just shy of 10,000 acres a lot of which borders Algonquin Park which is where 90% of the moose that we get come out of. The owners of the property have been doing selective logging the past few years which in the past has slowed down the deer population as it seems as though they are not fond of all the logging activity and we have noticed that they start to re appear a year or two after logging has stopped. Moose on the other hand have thrived in our areas while the logging has been happening. We used to hunt a full two weeks for deer but have since cut it back to one week now as like was said above that it's hard to talk guys into coming back year after year when the numbers are down. Time will tell I suppose.

 

[Butcherbill]

Move to BC, I have deer right outside my door waiting for me to come out and play.

Haha, I hope you’re in a spot you can hunt on your property. That buck in the window is a classic!

 

[tracker]

Sold my share out of a camp 2 years ago. We only hunted moose and bear with the odd deer sighting (no deer season). Our problem was trying to get a adult moose tag. Calf season is open to buying a lic. Not many moose which means not many calfs. Been like this since day one that you can shoot a calf when you buy a lic in season. Our camp problem was also aging members and next generations taking over with different views. We had members that were on vacation and not many workers. Fishing, waterfowl and bird hunting was good. We hunt crown land so it is hard to mange moose when calf is open every year. I have lived through all of our MNRF promised population improvement for moose with no positive results.

 

[woodchopper]

well I really don't get the whole 'camp' system you use in Ontario, the sharing of game equally to over a dozen hunters just boggles my mind. When we hunt in a group (2 or 3) whoever shoots the game gets it all and can decide to offer others a portion based on how they helped in the hunt. no one id guaranteed anything. If you get someone who you have helped and never shares well they don't get any help the next year or you don't go hunting with them anymore. More then a few guys I know that can't figure out why no one wants to hunt with them anymore and their wife won't let them hunt alone.

But different provinces different rules

From my point of view you will need to do a few things.

If you want to keep it running as a viable hunt camp your going to have to start shooting the predators, bear wolf an coyote, the first 2 are hard on moose and deer and the yotes are going to be eating the deer. That will help with your game problems, it will take a few years but you have to start somewhere.

Planting game friendly crops, as other members have pointed out, this will help attract game, but useless unless you start shooting the predators.

the 'cabin' folk you going to need them to pay the bills, I'm sure that you can come up with some sort of charter that they have to buy into that keeps the camps primary purpose as a hunting camp but also allows for other uses. Perhaps you can convert some of them to hunting later. Based on the age range your giving us your going to need new blood in the camp to keep it running so I can't see any other option then allowing other users. You hunt what 2 months of the year, 4 months are too cold, so that 6 months of the year that the camp could be used for recreation, perhaps they will help stock the woodshed in the summer too.

Tags and tag availability... nothing you can really do about that. I personally don't mind shooting a calf moose every second year, calves have a 50% survival rate and in the zone I have been primarily hunting the switch to a Bull draw and Calf draw has had good results in the population bouncing back. Shooting a Cow Moose to me makes no sense, sure you get a lot more meat but that's a breading cow out of the herd. A Bull is just another Moose that can easily be replaced by any other Bull, a single Bull can 'service' dozens of Cows in a season.

perhaps you need to be making bear sausage and converting the old fellers.

 

[Third Rail]

It's a combination of things, but the fact is that there are fewer deer. The last 4 winters have been brutal to the deer and attributed to many deer lost to winter kills. Not to mention little to no predator control, wolves and bear take a heavy toll on the deer and moose. The numbers are cyclical also and we are probably on a down swing. This is all difficult to accept but it's true, our gang in 47 would normally get close to 90% success on deer and always a moose if we were lucky enough to draw a tag ( but that's another problem), we managed 2 deer last yr. one the year before and skunked the yr before that.
Keep the faith, hopefully things will turn around. We have had times like this in the past just not a frequent.

My camp/cottage is in WMU 42 (French River area) and this is accurate. I agree about the wolves. Never heard them when I was shooting deer but now that they've shown up, the deer are scarce but the moose are doing quite well.

As for the winters, in February 2019 we had more snow in my area than I've seen since I was a kid. I had over 5 feet on the roof of my camp. If you didn't have snowshoes on, you were going nowhere. That had to really hurt the deer.

As for this year, (saw nothing but heard the wolves on three mornings) one of the things that, I believe, really impacted the hunt was the brutal November weather (-18C one morning and my lake froze!) This had to affect movement.

However, when I was sitting out on my stand in the insane cold (and daily snow) this fall, I still concluded that there is no place I'd rather be and nothing I'd rather be doing.

DVXDUDE, I hope you find some kind of satisfactory resolution to the dilema you find yourself in.

 

[FishHog]

My camp/cottage is in WMU 42 (French River area) and this is accurate. I agree about the wolves. Never heard them when I was shooting deer but now that they've shown up, the deer are scarce but the moose are doing quite well.

I'm in 42 as well and agree completely. My old camp was in 49 and it was going down hill before I moved out.
People can look to lay all the blame on the MNR, but the reality is 90% of the issues have been weather related. Tough to take but reality.

As for you people who don't get the hunt camp mentality, its a group of guys who go north for a week every fall and enjoy the bush. If it was about the meat we would stay home. Its about friendship and having fun together and getting away from it all. Some of the best deer hunting in ontario is in my back yard. But I go north every fall and mostly don't even see a deer. Still one of my favourite times of the year.

That being said, it sure is nice to actually have a chance at game, and lately that isn't the reality.

Good luck OP, but no easy solution.

 

[Runningfool]

Wolf hunting prohibited??? Did something change as last i checked the surrounding area of algonquin you halfto buy a tag (wolf/coyote) which 2 are available per hunter per year 1 at a time. Ill need to double check this now...

It has changed recently...within the few years. Prior to that we could shoot them (with a tag) in one half of the area we hunt but not the other. Now it’s all a no go....got to protect the majestic Algonquin wolf doncha know! <sarcasm>

 

[Suka]

Being from the west I don't really understand the hunt camp thing although I do understand the need in higher population area's. For me it's more about being alone with my quarry, my wife or son. I have friends that hunt in groups, have been asked numerous times, politely turned the offers down.

From reading your post, just mpo your money may be better spent buying a couple tracked argo's(if you're willing to rebuild them and make your own tracks, they're cheap) a couple wall tents, gear, trailer, and go where others are not willing to.
Even in AB(with the best draw system in the country) being from the se corner we'd drive for 3 days N, literally be clearing old logging roads of deadfall just to get where we unloaded the argo's. Then 5-30 mi through rough country, and I mean Rough country to get where there's good hunting.
Yes it's an adventure, yes, if you get seriously injured you're going to die as you are at least 2 days from competent help....

Like the moose in the pic to the left? That's what it takes. I have pics of other species and other moose too, most everything that's good to eat in AB. In AB you draw a circle about 60 or 80 mi diameter around every reserve center. There is NOTHING alive within that circle. Go outside that circle until you stop seeing quad tracks. Go another 5 miles and that's where you begin to look for sign and a place to camp. That really is the amount of hunting pressure there is in AB.

I look at a map of a place like ont and I see roads in the bottom inch of the map and bush for 6" N of the roads. I see lot's of posts people, "looking for someplace to hunt within an hour of (name the city)".

Not trying to sound like a ####, just trying to get across that if you want good hunting you need to go where the city people aren't willing to and the Natives haven't killed everything. Just my 2c