Hunter killed by bear, WRITE a letter to change Wilderness ATC 'rules'..
- Thread starter Jay
- Start date
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Its abundantly clear that you don't approve of carrying a handgun and wouldn't do it yourself.
It was questioned why you would be more threatened about an upset irrational hunter with a rifle and a handgun more than with an irrational hunter with just a rifle. The mindset is the same. If he is going to shoot you, it won't matter what he uses.
What I've questioned is why you feel the need to limit other in their choice. If someone wants to use a handgun for wilderness defence, more power to em. If you feel a shotgun or rifle is better, good on ya. But I'm not about to argue against your right to do so just because I might think a shotgun would be less effective than a handgun.
I love the outdoors. I don't love the idea of dying out there. I'd like to enjoy it longer than that. Limiting risk however by being prepared is not the action of the fearful, but of the wise.
I have mentioned nothing about your wilderness resume.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
My letter to Minister Blaney will be forth coming.
Once again Canadian firearms law fails to protect the citizen, and divides the population between those who can legally protect themselves (those in the wilderness for commercial purposes, who can demonstrate they cannot carry a long gun while working) and those who cannot. Why does the law make the distinction that one individual has the right to self defense while another does not? The primary difference between carrying a long gun and a handgun, is that the individual can be separated from his long gun for any number of reasons, but the handgun is always with him. This fact alone suggests a higher degree of protection for the ATC holder. Anyone who can prove competence with a handgun should be eligible for a wilderness ATC within the geographical region and time frame they intend to operate in.
Once again Canadian firearms law fails to protect the citizen, and divides the population between those who can legally protect themselves (those in the wilderness for commercial purposes, who can demonstrate they cannot carry a long gun while working) and those who cannot. Why does the law make the distinction that one individual has the right to self defense while another does not? The primary difference between carrying a long gun and a handgun, is that the individual can be separated from his long gun for any number of reasons, but the handgun is always with him. This fact alone suggests a higher degree of protection for the ATC holder. Anyone who can prove competence with a handgun should be eligible for a wilderness ATC within the geographical region and time frame they intend to operate in.
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ack!
If they wanted to carry bear spray would you think they were equally "foolish"?..... If a law abiding citizen with the proper certification feels they would like to carry a handgun for protection why would you be opposed?
I think your argument that a pissed off hunter with a sidearm is more likely to shoot you than one with a rifle is fundamentally flawed.... somehow the fact that someone carries a smaller more portable form of armament makes them a man killer?....
The odds of being attacked by a shark are extremely low... that being said, would you not let scuba divers carry bangsticks to protect themselves against an aggresive shark? Are these people foolish as well?.....
I'd also submit that the fool is the person who does not have a healthy fear of something capable of ending their lives.... It's when that fear becomes paranoia that I would be more apt to be concerned....
you said you are against carrying for protection in wilderness, I was simply asking if you were against carrying alltogether for everyone or you believe there are reasons and people that should carry for those reasons. The questions were quite easy to read and understand so I don't know where you get the idea that I think you carry.
The Wilderness certification in Alberta, at least, is quite rigorous and includes a practical portion as well. I know I'd feel safer meeting someone carrying a handgun that had undergone the certification process than I do meeting a lot of people carrying rifles that have had zero training.
Just a question guys, I'm going for black bear in a week, from my understanding, black bears are not as aggressive as grizzly bears, Am I correct? I've been hunting for black bear twice with no success (outfitters) and just the thought give me the heeby jeebies.
Any bear can be aggressive but they very rarely are. Don't go out there terrified and filled with bearanoia but just be aware. Most importantly have fun. Most grizz attacks are defensive....food/cubs....most black bear attacks are predatory...they are trying to eat you. Your odds of surviving a defensive attack are much better.
what line do you draw with handguns? Are you against all ownership, use, carrying, etc? Hard to see your side when you are unwilling or unable to tell us the line you have drawn for yourself and others by your statements of what you believe other people should and shouldn't be allowed to do with them.
Listen, there is a vast difference of using a long gun (rifle/shotgun) versus a handgun. Handguns have been taboo for many years in Canada. I personally don't want to see this country Americanized, with over liberal gun laws. A person utilizing a black gun and handgun while hunting, well, he will be sterotyped................read between the lines. Can you imagine if the law permitted, some wantabe hunting prairie whitetail and packing a sidearm.............hell those badgers usually go for the throat, I need to pack. Ask yourself why handguns are restricted?..........there are many answers.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Serious question. Do you have your R-PAL?
It used to be legal and there were no issues. It has only become taboo because of anti-gun legislation drafted by those with no understanding of firearms or their use. We have "overly Liberal" gun laws now.
You summarized your mindset quite well enough on your own. It is all so very clear now.
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It's really hard to convince a hunter to see the advantage of handgun in the bush. You are not the first.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Most folks who have spent much time around blackies tend to discount the level of danger they present, but there is another point of view. While a grizzly might attack someone who gets too close to it's cubs, it's food cash, or who suddenly startles it at close range (the grizzly is known to have a very large personal space, and once that space is invaded it may well react in a negative manner) black bears have a very small personal space, and often tolerate close range human encroachment. Black bear attacks are rare, but when they occur they are most frequently predatory in nature; thus the advice is to play dead if being mauled by a grizzly, but to fight back if being mauled by a black bear. Naturally this advise is a generality, and should be treated as such. Any bear on any given day can be a dangerous bear, and its wise to never forget what they are and how they make a living. It is prudent to learn something about bear behavior prior to going into bear habitat, and the best sources I know of are the trilogy of bear attack books by James Garry Shelton and the book "Bear Attacks, Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero. Beware of bear attack books which are simply cashing in on the drama of the subject, these tend to be thin on information, and thick on entertainment.
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Pure Energy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A river runs through it.
I wrote my letter. I want to be able to carry on my 96 acres of private property.
so not only are you against handgun ownership and use for ATC you are against the use of what you consider "black guns" for hunting, which many are available in non restricted and are suited perfectly fine for hunting.
I don't see any issue with your personal opinion, but that is all it is and it is a good thing we have choices beyond what you think everyone should do.
Wow Track.... never thought I would have seen this from someone who has been around firearms as long as you have...
You do know that if handguns were banned the next thing the antis would be going for is your hunting rifles....
Labelling everyone who wants to carry as some type of psychotic paranoid killer is just wrong... and labelling people who like black guns the same is even worse.... my gun safe likely looks a lot like yours does.... I do not own a single firearm that has a plastic stock.... but that is my personal taste and I will defend any law abiding citizens right to own whatever firearm they want and use it responsibly....
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last" - Winston Churchill
I am licensed to carry handguns in a couple of states and routinely carry a handgun in the bush when I'm in Maine and the thing I like about a handgun in a proper secure holster in the wilderness is that the handgun and ammo in the gun and in the holster belt cartridge loops is always with you.
If you upset your canoe the rifle and the ammo in your packsack are gone into the water. The holstered handgun on your belt and the ammo in the gun and on the belt are with you when you drag yourself up on shore.
If you stop to chainsaw a tree or use hand tools to make camp the rifle is invariably left leaning against a tree.
If you surprise a bear and the rifle is 50 yards away leaning against a tree you might be SOL.
If you think you can sprint 50 yards to that rifle and aim and fire before Mr. Grizz takes you down think again, you're not gonna make it.
Again in that situation the holstered handgun is always with you and immediately accessible.
If you upset your canoe the rifle and the ammo in your packsack are gone into the water. The holstered handgun on your belt and the ammo in the gun and on the belt are with you when you drag yourself up on shore.
If you stop to chainsaw a tree or use hand tools to make camp the rifle is invariably left leaning against a tree.
If you surprise a bear and the rifle is 50 yards away leaning against a tree you might be SOL.
If you think you can sprint 50 yards to that rifle and aim and fire before Mr. Grizz takes you down think again, you're not gonna make it.
Again in that situation the holstered handgun is always with you and immediately accessible.
