Hunters, Deer Ticks & Lyme disease

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RVG_Don

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Hate to bring up a subject that can only take part of the fun away and cause worry but a farmer recently warmed us, "those darn ticks are everywhere!"
So far we have only seen one, found it in my car's trunk mixed in with some of our gear, not good. No indication we have been bitten thankfully. Good coyote hunting set locations can often be in the same locations where deer move.
"Use insect repellents that contain DEET to repel ticks. Repellents can be applied to clothing as well as exposed skin." (from the cbc news story linked to below)

As we all know this will always happen now and then, I know coyote has busted us a few times lately winding us. I figure the heavy odor of repellent makes little difference because if your busted, your busted either way. Two evenings ago we set up for coyote and saw four deer. During that same set in an effort to avoid the cool and damp areas popular with ticks we were out in the open on a hillside facing a big bush and a hydro tower right of way. We were good from that direction however after 30 min my son spots coyote sitting 50 yds to our right looking right at us sitting out in the open as we try to avoid the threat of ticks and potential exposure to Lyme disease. If we were back in the shade and trees where we would normally be coyote would have pasted across in front instead of the staring contest we all had with the farm and the cattle behind him. We are gonna keep looking for spots for sets that minimize the deer tick risk and it's going to mean some more dogs get away.

- Along with the preventative measures mentioned in the cbc news story linked to below what sort of steps are other hunters taking to try to reduce the chance of getting Lyme disease?
(Thanks for the responses to this post and for the many various interesting really
good suggestions many members have made concerning protection against ticks)

- Heard of anyone getting infected?
We know of one confirmed, a guy from Dunnville.
- Anyone else concerned about getting Lyme disease?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/06/04/f-lyme-disease-ticks.html

On this page there is a Lyme Disease distribution map. Click the pdf link and scroll down to page 6 for expanded map from Saskatoon east
http://www.canlyme.com/ontario.html
 
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No lyme disease in ticks West of the MAnitoba / Sask border. Saskatchewan has only had three cases so far, all have been from contact with ticks East or South of us.
 
I worked with a girl who was bitten 2 years ago. Developed flu like symptoms for a few weeks and they went away. Several months later she started getting ill again and finally after 14 months she sent samples to the USA to get a positive hit for Lyme. All 3 Canadian test showed negative and she was told 80% of our test are false negatives..she has become so sick because of the late diagnosis she is pretty much wheelchair bound and has home visits everyday by her nurse. It has been pretty scary watching her decline so rapidly from a tick bite that if treated correctly at the start may have been prevented.
 
42MTD said:
I worked with a girl who was bitten 2 years ago. Developed flu like symptoms for a few weeks and they went away. Several months later she started getting ill again and finally after 14 months she sent samples to the USA to get a positive hit for Lyme. All 3 Canadian test showed negative and she was told 80% of our test are false negatives..she has become so sick because of the late diagnosis she is pretty much wheelchair bound and has home visits everyday by her nurse. It has been pretty scary watching her decline so rapidly from a tick bite that if treated correctly at the start may have been prevented.
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Is recovery ever going to happen for her? That is horrible if she is like that for good.

I have had dozens of ticks on me (dogs always bring them back). I usually feel them crawling before they bite but I will be a little more careful these days.

J
 
Be very concerned, found one tick on my dogs ear 6 weeks ago or so. Wife thought we should check to be sure, dog tested positive. Hopefully it was this years tick as she had one on her last fall as well. From all indications from blood and urine tests Vet figures it was this years bite. Got her on meds and praying she rids herself of it. This is the first case this year in this part of Ontario occording to our Vet. The Problem with Lyme is yours or your dogs symtoms won't start showing for along time after infection.
LongWalker..don't be so sure, where ever birds fly-by Lyme can be carried.
 
I was just bit by a tick this past weekend. Little ####er was stuck good.
Do not rip them off, you could cause their siliva to enter your body.

Needless to say, I killed him the most painful way I had at my disposal ATM.

Tuck your pant legs into your socks, and use repellents. If it can be avoided, do not lay in grass.
 
As far as I can figure I got Lyme from a tick bite during deer season in Grey county Ontario. I have yet to see a tick but one got me. I had Lyme for years before it was diagnosed. It was the American Igenex test and they actually found one of the bacteria. I was negative for the antibodies. 7 months on 1500 to 1800mgs of antibiotics has killed it or suppressed it.
For years I was getting MRI'd for MS. Originally I was CAT scanned for multiple brain tumors, as that is how it presented itself. The scan showed nothing. I had all kinds of neurological issues. I now have vision issues where I am loosing my ability to see. My eyes are healthy for my age and I am not going blind. I just am loosing my ability so see. The nerves that run the eye muscle are partly paralized and the part of the brain that interprets what the eyes see is not working right. Distance is fine with prisms in my glasses but get closer and things go downhill.
I can't go into the bush when the leaves are on the trees and have to stay out of evergreens. Open fields and hardwoods in winter are doable. There are other neurological issues too. I can't handle too much stimulation such as having more than 2 jobs on the go at work or working at something and have someone try talking to me. As the Lyme specialist told me, modern medicine does not treat neurological problems, it just treats the symptoms. Simply put, brain damage is not repairable and Lyme can cause brain damage if the bacteria settles there and goes untreated.
The bullseye rash that is associate with Lyme is actually rare to get. Most people don't know they have it. One fellow I talked to at the doctors office got it from a tick bite at a waterfront park downtown Oshawa. He got bit on one arm ( he saw the tick) but got a red blotches on the other. This fellow was in his 20's and was too sick to work for 2 years.
Most doctors don't believe you have Lyme if you didn't get a bullsey rash. Getting a diagnosis in Ontario is very difficult as there is/was only one specialist and the College of Physicians was harrassig him because of his prescribing large amounts of antibiotics. The standard test for Lyme in Canada useless and if it does give a positive the doctor says it is a false positive.
 
theDuck said:
As far as I can figure I got Lyme from a tick bite during deer season in Grey county Ontario. I have yet to see a tick but one got me. I had Lyme for years before it was diagnosed. It was the American Igenex test and they actually found one of the bacteria. I was negative for the antibodies....

The bullseye rash that is associate with Lyme is actually rare to get. Most people don't know they have it....

Most doctors don't believe you have Lyme if you didn't get a bullsey rash. Getting a diagnosis in Ontario is very difficult as there is/was only one specialist and the College of Physicians was harrassig him because of his prescribing large amounts of antibiotics. The standard test for Lyme in Canada useless and if it does give a positive the doctor says it is a false positive.
Click to expand...

theDuck
Very disturbing to hear about your situation. I have been wondering if the precautions we have been trying to take were over doing it and paranoia on my part. Now more than ever I am worried because of the possibility of severe potential health problems for my son, me or both of us. The guy we know of who has had to fight lyme could not stay awake to drive to work. He was off work for two years. He was really in bad shape overall as well.
I was thinking that if we were exposed we would know because of the symptoms listed in the first link in my initial post and then we could get treated, simple. Now I'm not so sure. Your comments are very enlightening, thanks

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2009/06/04/f-lyme-disease-ticks.html
"The first sign that you may be infected is a circular rash surrounding the spot where the tick bit you. It'll show up between three and 30 days after the tick helped itself to your blood. The rash may be followed by symptoms like fatigue, chills, fever, headache, muscle and joint pain and swollen lymph nodes.

If left untreated, the disease can progress to a second phase, which can last several months. Symptoms in the second phase include migraines, weakness, multiple skin rashes, painful or stiff joints, abnormal heartbeat and extreme fatigue."

It seems that Lyme is way more complicated and more difficult to deal with than I thought. I sure hope we can prevent ourselves from being exposed. Surely overall with the high tick populations eventually getting bit is unavoidable. Wonder what the percentage of lyme infected ticks is?

theDuck, I hope you start to improve and feel better
 
Juan For All said:
Is recovery ever going to happen for her? That is horrible if she is like that for good.

I have had dozens of ticks on me (dogs always bring them back). I usually feel them crawling before they bite but I will be a little more careful these days.

J
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By the sound of it this will be with her forever. The last time I saw her she was pretty much bedridden for 2 weeks..she said she has good days and bad days..after seeing her and knowing she was bit about 5 miles from my house scares the #### out of me..if you go on the web it give you early warning signs when bitten..she said her bite looked like a bullseye..
 
And to add to that^^^^...like The Duck, they thought she had MS and brain tumor as well. Prior to bite she was healthy and fit.
 
My kids and I get bit at least once a year. Last time I was at the hospital to get one out of my arm that was completely buried the Nurse was a big game hunter. He explained to me the yes Lime Disease was very bad but 95% of the tics that you see are Wood Ticks. They do not carry Lime Disease. Now what I do is keep the tic in a container and IF the bitten get sick or show the "bulls eye" bite then I bring it in to the docs for analysis.
my cents
 
Jnyiri said:
The question is if you find yourself bitten can you start the treatment right away or you have to wait for the test result?

Jozsef
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Trying to get an accurate test and a doctor that believes Lyme exists is the problem. You can get the kit from the U.S. to do the blood sample but get a doctor to sign for it, then give you the results, then believe the results, then start you on massive doses of antibiotics is the problem here in Ontario.
 
I live in southern alberta and have had two stuck to me so far this year.

Best defense agent Lyme... Just check ur self over at the end of the day for ticks.

Things you should know.

They need to be sucking on you for a min of 18-24 hours to transfer the lyme desease on to you. By the time they get to this they will no longer look like a small tick. there back end gets friggen huge like a grape. If you find one on you do not crush it at that moment. get its head out of you first. tweesers work best but you will probally freak out and rip. make sure its head does not rip off and stay insde. Your not crushing because like said, you dont wana squeese the ticks internals in2 you.

Now about lyme desease. It is easy to cure and regardless no need to worry about it killing you. littetly just a hang nail is more dangerous than a tick bite.
Lyme desease will pretty much give you arthritous ... i think thats how you spell it... you know when you get older and your joints hurt..

The way you know you have it there will be a red ring around the bite. It will look like a bulls eye. bite, than a inch or so of skin, than a red ring.

anyway, like said, takes 18-24 hours of them sucking on you. Enjoy your time in the woods and no need to be worried about ticks. just check ur self over at the end of the day.

ps. as well. East of the rockies,,,,, very rare the tick has actually carrys lyme desease.
 
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Tikka6xc, lyme may be fairly easy to get rid of if it is found early. Unfortunately early diagnosis is not the norm. It can take years to be diagnosed correctly. The bullseye rash may or may not occur. As posted above, most doctors don't want to know it exists and will test for everything under the sun ( MS, fybromylagia, RA, chronic fatigue, etc.) before they test for lyme. Even if they do test for lyme the tests in Canada are woefully inadequate. They only test for a few of the possible causal bacteria. To get tested correctly you need to use a U.S. lab. Even in the states Drs. have a huge problem treating lyme correctly ( long term, large dose antibiotic therapy).

There is a documentary titled UNDER OUR SKIN. Google it and you will find some trailers to give you an idea. It has been on PBS, I don't know where else you can find it but it is a real eye opener if you can watch the full length version.

I don't want to fear monger but, lyme is real, it is bad, it is not easy to get diagnosed, nor is it easy finding a Dr. who will deal with it correctly once you are diagnosed.

Another interesting google topic is "lyme literate doctors". See what you come up with.
 
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