Hunting is a coward's pastime!

Boomer said:
Claybuster, no disrespect intended, but your argument against the hunting of giraffe is an emotional one, and not supported by fact. Since I know little about giraffe hunting, I turned to an authority on the subject, veterinarian and professional hunter Kevin Robertson. He considers the giraffe as worthy an opponent as any other bushveld dweller in areas where they are hunted. "Their exceptional eyesight, acute hearing, cautious disposition, and the terrain in which they're found all make approaching them a real challenge." This suggests that fair chase giraffe hunting is much more common than you suggest.
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I don't blame him for saying that. He's a professional hunter and his day goes a lot smoother hunting a giraffe than a kudu, buffalo, eland, lion or other animal that requires more effort and is less likely to produce a result. He's in the satisfaction business and if he can talk up a giraffe he can make his client happy.

No emotion involved. Just the opinion of a hunter who has personally seen scores of giraffes in the wild and concluded that they don't provide much challenge.

I don't blame the Africans. As one Namibian landowner told me, "If some fool wants to pay me thousands to shoot a zebra then I'd be a bigger fool not to take his money." Same with giraffes.
 
Claybuster said:
I don't blame him for saying that. He's a professional hunter and his day goes a lot smoother hunting a giraffe than a kudu, buffalo, eland, lion or other animal that requires more effort and is less likely to produce a result. He's in the satisfaction business and if he can talk up a giraffe he can make his client happy.

No emotion involved. Just the opinion of a hunter who has personally seen scores of giraffes in the wild and concluded that they don't provide much challenge.

I don't blame the Africans. As one Namibian landowner told me, "If some fool wants to pay me thousands to shoot a zebra then I'd be a bigger fool not to take his money." Same with giraffes.
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A more likely scenario is that a PH is expected to fill a quota for each species within his hunting block, and if that quota is not filled, he may lose that concession and the next hunting block he's allocated might not be as productive, which reflects negatively on his bottom line. Most hunters who travel to Africa are not single species hunters, so the PH will have to deal with buffalo, lions, kudu, wildebeest, sable,warthogs, what have you, whether a giraffe is taken or not. The fact is that Robertson's point of view, based on his experience, cannot be discounted out of hand.
 
Claybuster said:
It is different because the buffalo is more desirable meat, presents a risk to the hunter, is a warier animal and doesn't always make for an easy shot.

You'd have a point about Banff if I'd posted pictures of giraffes in a park but the ones I posted were in the wild and could have given their location and date been legally hunted with the proper licensing.

Did you shoot a giraffe in Tanzania?


It's definitely legal. It's not fair chase or ethical. If someone's biggest life accomplishment is flying half-way around the world and spending tens of thousands to shoot a massive target that presents no risk, is slow to get up to speed and not regarded as prime eating then it must have otherwise been a fairly shallow and insignificant life.
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So the key now for a hunt to be "fair chase" and "ethical" is that the target animal must be a) dangerous, b) small, c) fleet of foot and, d) be prime eating. So leopard is out. Lion too. Elephant. Wolf. Bears. Cougar. Caribou. Kudu. Moose. Elk...the list goes on. What, pray tell, should we all be hunting that would fit your criteria?
 
I shot a mule deer once that had walked out in front of us on a trail. We were 2 minutes from the truck and weren't even being quiet as we were planning on a hour long trek I to the hunting area. This animal was either deaf or didn't care and stood broadside to me just a few dozen yards away. Was this deer shot in fair chase?
 
BigUglyMan said:
So the key now for a hunt to be "fair chase" and "ethical" is that the target animal must be a) dangerous, b) small, c) fleet of foot and, d) be prime eating. So leopard is out. Lion too. Elephant. Wolf. Bears. Cougar. Caribou. Kudu. Moose. Elk...the list goes on. What, pray tell, should we all be hunting that would fit your criteria?
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Apparently, Claybuster feels we should only be hunting the killer cave-rabbit from Monty Python's Search For The Holy Grail.

"...the most ferocious rodent ye've iver laid eyes on!!!" :)
 
BigUglyMan said:
So the key now for a hunt to be "fair chase" and "ethical" is that the target animal must be a) dangerous, b) small, c) fleet of foot and, d) be prime eating. So leopard is out. Lion too. Elephant. Wolf. Bears. Cougar. Caribou. Kudu. Moose. Elk...the list goes on. What, pray tell, should we all be hunting that would fit your criteria?
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How about an animal that makes just one or even two of those criteria? Or is a big clumsy animal at the side of the road that is a) not dangerous, b) large, c) slow to get to speed, d) not desirable eating, all the Might Great White Hunter can handle? :rolleyes:
 
Hunting is a lazy man's pastime these days. Never have I seen a hunter more than a stones throw away from a motorized vehicle. Lest he be a poor shot and is tracking it.
 
Kawicrash:

You seem to hold yourself to pretty high standards!

How much effort did you put into getting your last meal that contained an animal byproduct?

Did you run 20 kilometers uphill, both ways to get that burger and fries? LOL! Talk about the arrogance of thinking your standards are above others!

Not every person who hunts/or wants to, is capable of a hight level of physical performance. Baiting is simply one of many chosen methods of hunting. Hunting deer along a field edge is EXACTLY the same thing. The only difference is the size of the available food source. FIGURE IT OUT Sheesh!

The next thing you will spew out is that only hunters that use home made bows, wood arrows and flint broad heads are "REAL" hunters! LMAO! By the way, I have done that myself. Its hard as heck, but rewarding in its own way.

We shouldn't "expect" everyone to hunt and put that much effort forward!

If its legal, go for it! Just the enjoyment that any legal hunting gives us is the only justification we need to continue hunting in a chosen method.
 
Claybuster said:
How about an animal that makes just one or even two of those criteria? Or is a big clumsy animal at the side of the road that is a) not dangerous, b) large, c) slow to get to speed, d) not desirable eating, all the Might Great White Hunter can handle? :rolleyes:
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What animal for you is iconic of Africa? That is the primary animal you should be interested in hunting, and after that you can simply add to the list as your time and budget allows. It would be possible to underestimate the giraffe's great height, shoot from too close, and you're crushed, when it drops towards the shot. So hunting giraffe is not completely without risk, particularly if its encountered in thick cover where you have to be close just to see it. A South African pal suggested the animal that kills more hunters than any other is a bushbuck due to it's wicked horns. I don't know if I buy it or not, but if true, its not just the big 5 that can get the better of you.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. The hunter who wants a stink bull will collect him, regardless of what anyone thinks, but few would believe that the life of a giraffe is any more precious than the the life of any other individual African animal.
 
stilty said:
The reported 40 hours to die is what really F@$$ING bothers me. That is absolutely disgusting. Who cares if there was a legal permit, or even a poach, but come on... 40 hours wounded! Sorry bowhunters, but if you can't drop an animal with one shot....
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The fact that it was bowhunting has nothing to do with it. The Lion could have been wounded by any weapon. The fact that the lion suffered that long is whats most unfortunate!
 
There have been many similar circumstances where the game has never been recovered. No hunter worthy of the name intentionally wounds game, but it does happen. What matters is that the hunter does his best to finish what he starts, that's all any hunter can do. In this case, the hunter stayed on the trail, and ended the lion's suffering, even though the followup took a heartbreaking amount of time.
 
Millions of children die of starvation each day in Africa due to war and famine

yet the media and liberal whiners choose to vilify a dentist who killed a lion

I am glad those whiners have their priorities firmly planted in reality
 
BigUglyMan said:
So the key now for a hunt to be "fair chase" and "ethical" is that the target animal must be a) dangerous, b) small, c) fleet of foot and, d) be prime eating. So leopard is out. Lion too. Elephant. Wolf. Bears. Cougar. Caribou. Kudu. Moose. Elk...the list goes on. What, pray tell, should we all be hunting that would fit your criteria?
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bears are prime eating but few knows about that ... in the same time PETA love them so i do not know how long we will hunt and eat them.
 
Boomer said:
Claybuster, no disrespect intended, but your argument against the hunting of giraffe is an emotional one, and not supported by fact. Since I know little about giraffe hunting, I turned to an authority on the subject, veterinarian and professional hunter Kevin Robertson. He considers the giraffe as worthy an opponent as any other bushveld dweller in areas where they are hunted. "Their exceptional eyesight, acute hearing, cautious disposition, and the terrain in which they're found all make approaching them a real challenge." This suggests that fair chase giraffe hunting is much more common than you suggest.
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Mike i ate Giraffe in different occasions and it was good even the tongue. in the same time in CAR no natives were eating Kudu due to the belief of catching leprosis from eating the meat and they were eating lions ....

depending where you are Giraffe can be a challenge, like any wild animals depending on the location and natural predators ..., i do not think Namibia as a lot of lions in the wild ...
 
Karpenter said:
PETA is a bunch of crazies, we know that.

However, I seriously believe hunters need to clean up their ranks. It is one thing to hunt for turkey, deer, moose in order to enjoy a different type of meat or for coyotes to use fur for cold climate surviving. But it is a totally different think to go after what it's called "trophy hunting".

The whole meaning of a "trophy" comes from the understanding of a tough competition, a supreme achievement finalised with a well deserved win. While winning the Wimbledon trophy in tennis comes after such achievement, paying a bag of money to fly comfortably to the other sided of the world, going in the bushes with well equipped vehicles, being supported by a group of local specialists who practically either bring the animal in front of your sights or nicely place you at the best shooting position, having them backing you with their skills and guns in case you miss and the lion decides to jump at you, all this is not at all an achievement any more than it it is for a grandma to move faster in her Corolla than Usain Bolt runs on the track.

Second, the act of hunting for no purpose as described above (meat, fur for cold climate, etc.) leaves very little excuse for the "trophy hunter". It is therefore very easy to reach the conclusion that a guy (or gal) who enjoys this type of hunting does it just for the pleasure of ... killing, nothing more, like a deranged person. And this has very little to none acceptance in our world.

It is time for real hunters to vigorously separate from "trophy hunters". It is time to make "trophy hunting" a thing of the past.
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I trophy hunt, proud of it. By the way the meat I don't use is given away to other people who enjoy eating it and can't get out to hunt. It is a lot harder to go for a nice trophy deer than you think. This will be my 2nd year for not taking a deer, passed up a lot of nice ones. So yes in away trophy hunters are huge conservationists! just my thought!
 
What do trophy hunters enjoy about hunting? I hunt for food and for me what I find most satisfying is when I spend days stalking for my prey and FINALLY finding what i am looking for. A battle of wits and senses plus lots of luck.
 
bluesteel221 said:
What do trophy hunters enjoy about hunting? I hunt for food and for me what I find most satisfying is when I spend days stalking for my prey and FINALLY finding what i am looking for. A battle of wits and senses plus lots of luck.
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f:P:

Umm, that's pretty much exactly what trophy hunting is, except finding what you're looking for is a lot harder than just shooting the first representative of the species you come across for meat.
 
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