Hunting Permission: Let’s talk Price

[skhunter]

But, if I have always dealt with the same sporting goods store owner that sells ccm equipment for years as my kids grew up and needed new equipment... and that sporting goods store told me when a sale priced batch of equipment arrived every year before anyone else... if I gave him a thank you gift, you'd call me unethical.

Never said anything about ethics just legality. Totally legal for you to give him a thank you gift.

Not legal to give a gift to a landowner for access to hunt.

 

[holzmeister]

So,maybe,you could enlighten us. Our information is that European hunting,especially,in your country,is a sport reserved for only the uber rich completely out of reach for ordinary folks.

Well I do not know who you are getting your information, or lack of , but it is hardly a sport that is reserved for the wealthy. The use of the word über is also incorrect.
Everyone that I know that hunts in Germany isn't wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. Karl is the son of a butcher, he hunts with his grand dads drilling that cost a whopping 700 DM when he bought it. Caspar, works at Media Markt selling cell phones, hunts with a ancient Remington in 222, Simon works with his wife in a fish wagon, hunts with an old Mauser that still have the marking from a less über time. They are all common folk. What I think you are clinging to is what you see on the TV. People sitting in engineered high seats, using high end optics, shooting Blaser, Sauer, Hartmann & Weiss, Heckler & Koch, and Heym. Wearing hunting trousers, using carbon fiber shooting sticks etc.. The average hunter in Germany is the man on the street. Now they do have stricter rules there, your hunting license is not a cake walk like the one we have here. Ballistics are covered, energy delivered to the game, where to shoot said prey and written and practical tests. A shotgun test where 10 clays are given flight and I need to staub 8 of them to pass ( make them into dust ) where i have to do a test if I want to hunt wild boar. Hardly for the elite only my friend. |Germans much like the British love their rituals, some will dress for the part, others will says Weidmannsheil place a bit of greenery in the shot animals mouth to give thanks. Blow bugles ...

The fee I paid was 150 euros for the year. For this I was given 2 bucks and 1 doe, rabbits and hares ( the legal limit ) wild fowl and wild boar (no limit on the boar ) The land owner got peace of mind knowing that people that he knew where watching his fields and limiting the damage from the wildlife. ( more the boar than the roe ) It also worked well because we would all share information on patterns and what we see when we were hunting.

I have hunted in Northern Saxony, across to Bavaria to the Czech Republic and I have yet to meet these rich folk you speak of? Mind you I am sure there are some rich people in the EU that hunt but they are far out numbered by the common man.

 

[Dogleg]

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Dukester]

Thanks holzmeister, very informative and interesting.

 

[Stubacca]

No actual data here but I’d imagine if you asked anyone in the city if you could use their backyard it would be a hard no. I fail to see why now that I’ve spent many dollars on rural property I should just open it up. Cmon in!!

There are public and private lands for a reason.

 

[scott_r]

No actual data here but I’d imagine if you asked anyone in the city if you could use their backyard it would be a hard no. I fail to see why now that I’ve spent many dollars on rural property I should just open it up. Cmon in!!

There are public and private lands for a reason.

You are probably right. I imagine that might change if their back yard measured 4 sections and not 40 feet, you may just ask them and they may just let you on.

 

[track]

I think it’s only fair to compensate a landowner for use of their resources. After all, everything has a cost - wheat, canola, cattle. And you really don’t want to have to hunt that lousy crown land again this year. Do you? Or even worse, spend six figures to buy enough recreational land to have a decent hunt. Do you?

After all 150 inch white tail or 5 year old mule deer can take a lot of time and cost to find on public land.
What’s it worth these days to have a great hunt and feel good about supporting your local landowner for keeping some untouched areas of the property intact for wildlife or limiting access and keeping the wildlife populations and age structures healthy?

Being a good steward of the land can be financially rewarding. One can start with greasing the farmer or rancher with a dinner and his or her favourite bottle. Then as the landowner - land user relationship develops further, perhaps help with the operation or offer to pay the taxes. Or maybe ask him to name his price...what’s a hunting lease worth to you?

What you have mentioned leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For most of my life I have hunted private land and was "always" welcome back to hunt. All or most of the landowners I know welcome hunters to thin-out the herds (less crop damage) and know that hunting is a great tradition, custom and heritage. Here in Alberta and more-so in Saskatchewan, I have been welcome with open arms from landowners. I kid-you not, in Alberta my son and I have almost a perfect batting average with landowners, Saskatchewan batting average is probably 1.500%. There is no need to grease the palms of landowners. A simple thank-you of gratitude, a Christmas Card or a small token such as a deer/elk/moose roast is suffice.

 

[umchorn2]

What you have mentioned leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For most of my life I have hunted private land and was "always" welcome back to hunt. All or most of the landowners I know welcome hunters to thin-out the herds (less crop damage) and know that hunting is a great tradition, custom and heritage. Here in Alberta and more-so in Saskatchewan, I have been welcome with open arms from landowners. I kid-you not, in Alberta my son and I have almost a perfect batting average with landowners, Saskatchewan batting average is probably 1.500%. There is no need to grease the palms of landowners. A simple thank-you of gratitude, a Christmas Card or a small token such as a deer/elk/moose roast is suffice.

You have exactly the attitude that most hunters have. Not only do they want something for free but they expect it! Just because you and I can walk all over crown land and shoot our one deer (with a license of course), doesn’t mean we can’t be proud to support our landowners who keep our love of hunting alive by compensating their good stewardship with dollars.

After all, if cattle and grain prices fell to all time lows and farmers were losing money selling what they produce, would you voluntarily pay more for steaks and bread just to help them support their families? I seriously doubt you would, you’d enjoy the low price of a good cut of beef! Are you the type of guy who shows up to work expecting to get paid for the hours you put in and complain about the 3% raise like it’s not enough but doesn’t want to pay or pay the least when it’s someone else’s time or resources that are needing compensation?

So why not compensate a landowner who had to work to buy the land that produces wildlife? I didn’t buy my land so you can enjoy hunting and share the tradition with your whole extended family. I bought my land to keep for hunting so that I would have a place to hunt. While everyone else was buying land to log and farm and graze cattle, I was buying it to leave as hunting land!! And if you want to hunt on my land that I had to buy, land that remains productive and produces wildlife instead of grain, you will have to pay for the privilege of access to that land. Does that make sense?

I’m only suggesting it is unfair that it is illegal to compensate landowners for access to hunt when it’s perfectly legal to compensate them for clear cut logging and export the lumber to New York or where ever. It’s also perfectly legal that commercial fishers catch millions of pounds of walleye and sell it without paying royalties (or very minimal royalties) and then the fish is exported from Canada for US markets to fetch top dollar at high end restaraunts without the average Canadian seeing any benefit from the sales of their resources only to fund enforcement and upkeep of these lakes including restocking that may exceed the real benefit of fishing in the first place.

If you’re sitting there reading this thinking you don’t have to pay anything to hunt because wildlife is public and it should be free...get a grip on reality. It takes millions of dollars to properly manage public wildlife and your $40 tag barely pays for publishing the hunting synopsis and the secretary who answers calls. Wildlife management is expensive and if we’re going to have any wildlife at all we’re going to need serious investment in the sector to keep it around. This might not be obvious to you but to me it’s clear. Hunters are going to have to spend more to hunt or they will be playing Cabelas Big Game Hunter while they wait half a lifetime to draw a tag to shoot a moose with 10 other guys. Is that the hunt you would rather have?

 

[cdn1canhunt]

Come on guys 21 pages. I live and hunt in southwestern Ontario. Lots of hunters not many woodlots, I have access to 4 different places to hunt and don't pay for any of them other than make an effort to be friendly, a Christmas Card with a Tim's card in it and a written thank you for the the opportunity. Asking and getting permission to hunt a property can still be done. learn some salesmanship. Yes you will get lots of no's and lots of "I already hunt it". If you are persistent and always looking for opportunities to access land you can still just ask and get a "sure go ahead" or an "I don't see why not" after you gain access treat it like a piece of gold be courteous and friendly to the landowner and their property. Paying for land to hunt is a path to the end IMHO.

 

[Dogleg]

For what I paid for my hunting land I could have bought everyone in my family a Ferrari. Would you have the guts to ask a stranger for free and unsupervised use of something like that? Maybe offer a bottle and a piece of raw meat?

 

[Crowca3]

Why not ask. Dogleg, can I hunt your land?

 

[bearkilr]

You have exactly the attitude that most hunters have. Not only do they want something for free but they expect it! Just because you and I can walk all over crown land and shoot our one deer (with a license of course), doesn’t mean we can’t be proud to support our landowners who keep our love of hunting alive by compensating their good stewardship with dollars.

After all, if cattle and grain prices fell to all time lows and farmers were losing money selling what they produce, would you voluntarily pay more for steaks and bread just to help them support their families? I seriously doubt you would, you’d enjoy the low price of a good cut of beef! Are you the type of guy who shows up to work expecting to get paid for the hours you put in and complain about the 3% raise like it’s not enough but doesn’t want to pay or pay the least when it’s someone else’s time or resources that are needing compensation?

So why not compensate a landowner who had to work to buy the land that produces wildlife? I didn’t buy my land so you can enjoy hunting and share the tradition with your whole extended family. I bought my land to keep for hunting so that I would have a place to hunt. While everyone else was buying land to log and farm and graze cattle, I was buying it to leave as hunting land!! And if you want to hunt on my land that I had to buy, land that remains productive and produces wildlife instead of grain, you will have to pay for the privilege of access to that land. Does that make sense?

I’m only suggesting it is unfair that it is illegal to compensate landowners for access to hunt when it’s perfectly legal to compensate them for clear cut logging and export the lumber to New York or where ever. It’s also perfectly legal that commercial fishers catch millions of pounds of walleye and sell it without paying royalties (or very minimal royalties) and then the fish is exported from Canada for US markets to fetch top dollar at high end restaraunts without the average Canadian seeing any benefit from the sales of their resources only to fund enforcement and upkeep of these lakes including restocking that may exceed the real benefit of fishing in the first place.

If you’re sitting there reading this thinking you don’t have to pay anything to hunt because wildlife is public and it should be free...get a grip on reality. It takes millions of dollars to properly manage public wildlife and your $40 tag barely pays for publishing the hunting synopsis and the secretary who answers calls. Wildlife management is expensive and if we’re going to have any wildlife at all we’re going to need serious investment in the sector to keep it around. This might not be obvious to you but to me it’s clear. Hunters are going to have to spend more to hunt or they will be playing Cabelas Big Game Hunter while they wait half a lifetime to draw a tag to shoot a moose with 10 other guys. Is that the hunt you would rather have?

I have nothing against landowners charging trespass fees, it's their private property, do as they wish. To think otherwise is a purely socialist mentality. I've always been amazed that supposedly (former) conservative Alberta has this law. SK I can understand.

However, there's one major flaw in your thinking. Wildlife in many areas of Canada can never be managed because the largest user group has no seasons or bag limits. These animals aren't restricted to private land that can be controlled, so even if a landowner controls the hunting on his/her property, it's uncontrolled as soon as the animal leaves. And no, I'm not suggesting everything be high fenced.

 

[Dogleg]

Why not ask. Dogleg, can I hunt your land?

That depends. Can i drive your Ferrari?

 

[blargon]

That depends. Can i drive your Ferrari?

Sure you can drive my Fiero…

 

[Dogleg]

Sure you can drive my Fiero…

We can drive it out to where you park your Lamborghini.

 

[Boreas]

Luckily for Canada, wild game hasn't been monetized. It's also lucky that those who believe it should be are in a distant minority.

 

[track]

You have exactly the attitude that most hunters have. Not only do they want something for free but they expect it! Just because you and I can walk all over crown land and shoot our one deer (with a license of course), doesn’t mean we can’t be proud to support our landowners who keep our love of hunting alive by compensating their good stewardship with dollars.

After all, if cattle and grain prices fell to all time lows and farmers were losing money selling what they produce, would you voluntarily pay more for steaks and bread just to help them support their families? I seriously doubt you would, you’d enjoy the low price of a good cut of beef! Are you the type of guy who shows up to work expecting to get paid for the hours you put in and complain about the 3% raise like it’s not enough but doesn’t want to pay or pay the least when it’s someone else’s time or resources that are needing compensation?

So why not compensate a landowner who had to work to buy the land that produces wildlife? I didn’t buy my land so you can enjoy hunting and share the tradition with your whole extended family. I bought my land to keep for hunting so that I would have a place to hunt. While everyone else was buying land to log and farm and graze cattle, I was buying it to leave as hunting land!! And if you want to hunt on my land that I had to buy, land that remains productive and produces wildlife instead of grain, you will have to pay for the privilege of access to that land. Does that make sense?

I’m only suggesting it is unfair that it is illegal to compensate landowners for access to hunt when it’s perfectly legal to compensate them for clear cut logging and export the lumber to New York or where ever. It’s also perfectly legal that commercial fishers catch millions of pounds of walleye and sell it without paying royalties (or very minimal royalties) and then the fish is exported from Canada for US markets to fetch top dollar at high end restaraunts without the average Canadian seeing any benefit from the sales of their resources only to fund enforcement and upkeep of these lakes including restocking that may exceed the real benefit of fishing in the first place.

If you’re sitting there reading this thinking you don’t have to pay anything to hunt because wildlife is public and it should be free...get a grip on reality. It takes millions of dollars to properly manage public wildlife and your $40 tag barely pays for publishing the hunting synopsis and the secretary who answers calls. Wildlife management is expensive and if we’re going to have any wildlife at all we’re going to need serious investment in the sector to keep it around. This might not be obvious to you but to me it’s clear. Hunters are going to have to spend more to hunt or they will be playing Cabelas Big Game Hunter while they wait half a lifetime to draw a tag to shoot a moose with 10 other guys. Is that the hunt you would rather have?

You are opening a can of worms which is unconventional in Canada. You are sitting out on a limb by yourself, or at the most, with a minority group. Things are just fine the way they are, leave things alone.

 

[saskbooknut]

Wildlife has already been monetized and privatized in Canada by the establishment of game farms, which has brought us the crisis of CWD. The seeds of destruction of all deer, moose, elk hunting has been sown by by a few individuals who sought to profit from a resource belonging to all Canadians.

The fact that the economic value of game farming is negligible when compared to the value of hunting to the Canadian economy shows what folly is undertaken in the name of short term profit for a few.

Don't get me started or I will go on to the destruction of abundant fisheries all across Canada. We, as Canadians, have a lot to answer for in our mismanagement of our wild resources.

 

[1963beretta]

I’m only on here discussing issues that are relevant to me. If you don’t want to pay for a hunting lease and can secure hunting on private lands or public lands then you have that right. But to suggest that everyone who owns lands that are productive for wildlife should never have the option to charge a fee and that someone willing to pay to hunt is legally unable to do so doesn’t sit well with me.

If you own a house do you think anyone that needs a place to live because they don’t want to spend any money to buy a house can stay in your house for free? Probably not because as a property owner you have a say in who you allow in and on your property and what fee or rent you can charge them, correct? Why would land be any different? If a guy bought it to specifically have to produce wildlife why can he not be able to charge a fee but his neighbor can clear cut the forest and sell the trees? And then plow the whole thing under, drain the swamps and cultivate wheat which can be sold on a world market?

I’m only looking for a system that compensates landowners by allowing hunters access to good hunting land while at the same time keeping the land natural, the way it is and productive for wildlife. I don’t want hunting to become more expensive believe me I’m paying the most out of almost everyone on here. Not only did I already spend six figures on land I also spend $700 per year on taxes and make about enough on hay to cover those taxes.

You would be sickened by how expensive it is for me to hunt if you broke it down. If anything I want to help you save money by giving you an option to purchase a quality hunt at a fraction of what it cost you to buy enough acres and pay the taxes just to shoot a deer and I don’t want to be criminalized for doing so. Is there something unreasonable about my position? I’m not forcing any one to pay for anything they don’t want to but to suggest that someone cannot have the option to have a mutual transaction in the marketplace could be considered forcing his view on others, no?

Furthermore, by providing a place for animals to live and giving them the option of living there or living in the millions of acres of plowed fields by their own free choice they have decided to reside on my property. It’s not like I’m being paid to grow animals even though they live and reproduce there. Maybe I should be...because it sounds like quite a few people take private land owners who produce public wildlife at their own expense for granted. You feel me brother?

Bahaha...thats funny. Six figures wouldnt buy you a three bedroom condo in my residence and $700 wouldn't come close to covering the monthly maintenance fee. Do you honestly believe you have dished out more then most people on this board? If you truly think thats the case, you may want to have the water you’re drinking tested

On a good note, building long standing relationships and friendships with land owners as well as having access to public lands and waterways has provided many like me all the hunting opportunities we could wish for. Cost of admission = zero.

 

[Dogleg]

Bahaha...thats funny. Six figures wouldnt buy you a three bedroom condo in my residence and $700 wouldn't come close to covering the monthly maintenance fee. Do you honestly believe you have dished out more then most people on this board? If you truly think thats the case, you may want to have the water you’re drinking tested

On a good note, building long standing relationships and friendships with land owners as well as having access to public lands and waterways has provided many like me all the hunting opportunities we could wish for. Cost of admission = zero.

What difference does it make what a condo costs? Are you giving it away for nothing to those that ask? Are people
Asking?Would you swap it for hunting access? Is tbere a law forbidding you from renting it out?