I am wrong and I need your opinion

[AndrewNS]

Why a 308 if its solely a target rifle for ranges out to 400yards?

.223 can EASILY do 400y, and you'll save a hell of a lot of money in ammo. I had a Rem 700 Varmint in 223 and it shot cloverleafs with factory ammo at 100m. Very accurate

Will a .223 reach out to 400 yards? Yes.

Will a .308 reach out to 400 yards with a lot less effect from wind? Yes.

Anything over 300 yards with a .223 and you are getting into some serious wind drift when shooting in other than ideal conditions. I would definately go with a .308 out past 300 yards, but that's just me.

 

[silen]

Why a 308 if its solely a target rifle for ranges out to 400yards?

.223 can EASILY do 400y, and you'll save a hell of a lot of money in ammo. I had a Rem 700 Varmint in 223 and it shot cloverleafs with factory ammo at 100m. Very accurate

It states in one of my earlier posts that Ialready have all the equipment for, I'm very familiar with and fond of this cartridge. That should be more than enough reason . It's just a personal preference (it is better at bucking the wind too)and the ability to stretch the legs of the 308 may come up sooner or later and I would like the ability to step into longer distances with a cartridge I know and understand without spending another 5k on a different caliber setup (rifle/ parts/barrels/bench time/ dies/ trigger time... etc etc.
Hope this answers it

 

[tinbird]

Get a Savage, Tikka, Vanguard 2, Win 70 out of box accuracy will very much please you. I used to be a Remington fan, wouldn't waste my money on that company any more. I'm sure there are guys who have bought new Remons and are happy with them, but then the law of averages would deem that the company would screw up and actually produce a good rifle in spite of their efforts.

 

[IchBinEinSniper]

In regards to Tikka:
- Plastic parts
- Limited aftermarket support
- Uses proprietary magazines (I am not aware of any AI options)
- Same bolt throw regardless of SA or LA (Maybe they fixed this? I doubt it)
Nothing on my list is necessarily bad. It all depends on what the end user has planned for the rifle long term. They are the reasons I never looked at them for very long. Tikka are attractive and generally accurate rifles though.

What I meant was that they are great out of the box, though there is little in the way of aftermarket support...though it is unneeded. Caramel is right though, the hottest current deal is the Sig SSG3000 or a Savage...though the Savages name escapes me right now.

 

[BigUglyMan]

You could buck the milspec trend and pick up a VTR. We tested them a few years ago and it's my understanding that they are slated to replace the old post-64 M70s that we currently have. So you could be "polspec" rather than "milspec".

 

[saskcop]

You guys don't have the Remmy 700's up north yet? They stole our Model 70's quite some time ago. Even if there was nothing wrong, they made something up just to get us to turn them in.

 

[silen]

You guys don't have the Remmy 700's up north yet? They stole our Model 70's quite some time ago. Even if there was nothing wrong, they made something up just to get us to turn them in.

Run that one by me again ?? What does this post mean ?? What are you talking about Sir ?? Up where? Stole? Don't have 700's?? Model 70?? Turn in huh? Help

 

[silen]

What I meant was that they are great out of the box, though there is little in the way of aftermarket support...though it is unneeded. Caramel is right though, the hottest current deal is the Sig SSG3000 or a Savage...though the Savages name escapes me right now.

Definetely not interested in the ssg3000 ....no one around me carrries them never seen anyone at my local with one to even have a look at it, spotty reviews compared to the German made one and I would never spend 2k if I couldn't handle/test something myself. The Savage brand seems to be a bit ahead of the pack in this opinion poll in general...so far ?

 

[Fyn]

I personally love my Savages, I've had a few of their "tactical" line up including a 10PC (223), 10FP (223), and a 10BA in .308. They have all been great shooters, although I found the 10BA to be very heavy and clunky. Personally, I sold that rifle and built a Stevens 200 (same as a model 10) rebarreled with a Shilen heavy fast twist 223 barrel and an MDT chassis and I am MUCH happier with this rifle. Every Savage I've owned (including the cheapy ones) have been awesome shooters. Plus if you like to tinker/mod they are a great option.

 

[BigUglyMan]

You guys don't have the Remmy 700's up north yet? They stole our Model 70's quite some time ago. Even if there was nothing wrong, they made something up just to get us to turn them in.

Not even close. Last one I saw was the prototype. Hell, I can't even get a new computer, let alone a swanky new M700.

 

[lonely_wolf]

The Savage brand seems to be a bit ahead of the pack in this opinion poll in general...so far ?

Of course. Savage fans are always trying to prove their rifles. Rem guys don't have to. The history speaks for itself.

 

[Eagleye]

Well, I better chime in here.

I'm a Remington 700 fan, and have been shooting them since one year after the model was introduced.
Forget the naysayers.
It is true that some "slips" in quality have been seen occasionally, but the 700 is still the unit to beat.

Your chances of getting a very accurate rifle are stellar.

I own 2 Savage rifles, and while accurate enough [one has a custom barrel, cause the factory tube would only make 1½ moa, lol]
they are not in the same class with the 700s I own. [a considearble number, FWIW]

Regards, Dave.

 

[AndrewNS]

Of course. Savage fans are always trying to prove their rifles. Rem guys don't have to. The history speaks for itself.

I don't think anyone is trying to prove anything about their rifle here, we're just giving opinions to a fellow nutter who asked for them...

As for quality and history, Savage has historically lower quality, but present day EXCELLENT quality, Savage has come a long way in the past 5 - 10 years with rifle building. From what I can tell Remington is the opposite, they have historically good quality and present day low quality, riding the coat tails of their brands name in the industry and forgetting to continue the innovations that gave them that name.

 

[caramel]

Remington sadly is not nowere the safe bet they were, there is never a sale big enough to get a Rem nowadays... JP.

 

[AndrewNS]

Remington sadly is not nowere the safe bet they were, there is never a sale big enough to get a Rem nowadays... JP.

It's funny you know, this seems to be the general opinion now and this has come about really fast. Last winter saying that you liked Savage on this site was followed by dozens of posts about how great Remington was and why you should get a Remington and not a Savage... I've been a Savage fan for years now, it's nice to see that others are starting to see the quality that they offer also.

 

[caramel]

It's funny you know, this seems to be the general opinion now and this has come about really fast. Last winter saying that you liked Savage on this site was followed by dozens of posts about how great Remington was and why you should get a Remington and not a Savage... I've been a Savage fan for years now, it's nice to see that others are starting to see the quality that they offer also.

Pull those tread out, the only Rem i like in the last 5 year was a 7615P 223, i dont buy REM, i think your are mistaken or i am really getting Alzeimer... JP.

 

[bearkilr]

As for quality and history, Savage has historically lower quality, but present day EXCELLENT quality, Savage has come a long way in the past 5 - 10 years with rifle building. From what I can tell Remington is the opposite, they have historically good quality and present day low quality, riding the coat tails of their brands name in the industry and forgetting to continue the innovations that gave them that name.

The words "quality" and "Savage" aren't generally spoken in the same sentence, not even by the fanboys. "Cheap" and "accurate" is what comes up repeatedly. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[AndrewNS]

The words "quality" and "Savage" aren't generally spoken in the same sentence, not even by the fanboys. "Cheap" and "accurate" is what comes up repeatedly. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Accuracy can not be obtained without quality. Period.

Accuracy IS repeatability, and when you are talking about firearms, the only way to get repeatability is with quality components that eliminate as many of the variables as possible. Basically you want to take out all factors except the human element. To say that a rifle can be accurate without being a quality product is just plain wrong. If the action and barrel are not quality then you have additional variables playing on your shots and will not achieve tight groups also known as repeatability...

 

[chrismc]

If it were me, I would get, in order, 308 win caliber,

Sig ssg 3000 - (other than the US made stock, these are wicked rifles) but its a bit $$$ for your price range
Rem 5R - I have one - buy 168gr hornady match and go shoot 1/2" groups right away
Tikka varm 308 (was a big Tikka fan, now I am not (boycott due to warranty treatment) - but they do make a nice rifle)
Any of the higher end Savage/Rem/Winch/Weatherby with a heavy barrel - some will shoot wicked right out of the box, others you may have to do minor tweaks. Less expensive, and if you do have to tweak (chances are slim, but still there) there are parts/services avail.

Believe it or not, there are some good buys from time to time on EE - just have to wait and sort thru the 'used guns selling for retail price or more' . Buy a straight shooting used rifle, and if its beat cosmetically, just put on a customized Boyds stock, bed it, and you're set!

 

[caramel]

So far the testing ( youtube) show that the new stock on the Sig 3000 have no incidences on accuracy, fit and finish may be the only difference, mine should be here today, i will find out and post... JP.