I finally pulled the trigger on a Lathe.....UPDATE Post 87....

[notsorichguy]

So....

I've been in the market for a reasonably priced "good" lathe.... I've been looking (off and on) for the last 3-4 years. I missed a REALLY good package about 6 months ago by 15 min.....

Today, I received a call from a machinist friend of mine, telling me that another fella he knows is selling a decent hobby-smith lathe.

So after work I headed to this guys place, and I am now a bit poorer in cash but richer in tools!

It is a Frejoth f1-900. It was built in 1988. It is in good working order, my machinist friend has givin me the "2" thumbs up on both condition and price. 12x36, 17/8" through stock. It comes with a 3jaw and a 4 jaw, 2 steady rests, a live centre and a enough tooling to get started.

So now it's time to think about how I'm actually going to move it...... I'm looking for ideas etc. from the fellas out there who have done this before.

Loading isn't an issue, the previous owner has a forklift that is capable of loading it onto a flat deck trailer. Getting from its current home to my Garage isn't a problem either..... But..... How do I get a 4.5' machine through a 7' tall OH garage door and on the floor with-out tweaking something? A crane or Boom truck is out of the question.....

2 options on trailers are; 1- flatdeck with ramps, or; 2- tilt bed flatdeck. (both are car haulers)

I was thinking the tilt bed is the answer (its hydraulic). Back up just into the Garage, tilt the bed and using some 1" steel pipe (or HD dollys) I could roll it off the deck and into the garage...... But at 2500 lbs its a bit of a risk..... The drive way does slope away from the garage enough that the tilt bed surface will only be at a 15 degree slope when "skidding" it into the garage.....

I have time to plan, Moving day is Saturday of Easter Weekend...... I could really use some discussion on the matter..... My Machinist buddy has never had to move a machine, so no exp doing it either!

And oh, yes..... I did remember to take some pics!

Here's one or two to keep you entertained!

 

[kamlooky]

Lots of pieces you can remove to make the chore a tad lighter.
Bring the forking lift with you?
Cool find.

 

[burnt_servo]

I've used engine hoists to move stuff around .

if your good at figuring out lifting capacity's you could make a couple of beams with legs out of something like two by twelves and use that to lift the lathe off of the trailer .


then there is everyones buddy [ and possible relation to kamlooky] ... AVE

 

[the_tracker]

Many members of the Model Engineer Workshop forum use engine cranes for the final positioning. of heavy machinery. Lots of photos and discussion about moves on the site.

 

[McCDan]

I would go with the tilt deck trailer. Rent some equipment skates and a toe jack. The skates are steerable with a long handle. I would also rent an electric winch with hooks on both ends to lower from the trailer. Once it's on the concrete garage floor the skates will move it freely. If you can do everything with it only being a few inches off the floor you should be safe. Keep a lot of 2x4 and 4x4 dunnage on hand so you can reposition the skates and jacks quickly when you need to. Also, move your carriage all the way to the tailstock end to balance it a little better. It will probably still be heavy on the headstock end though.

Small machines like that are meant to be moved frequently so unless it gets dropped in transit everything will be fine. Would be a good idea to rent a very fine level for levelling the machine as well. If you were in Edmonton I'd lend you mine.

 

[BCRider]

I've moved some big stuff back with my father using pipes as rollers. It was pretty risky. Not only for running away off the slope of the trailer if you're not careful but also from a tipping standpoint. It's pretty top heavy and most of those tin bases don't have a large footprint.

If you remove some of the heavier bits you can cut down the weight of the head, bed and carriage to where you can lift it up safely with an engine hoist. Remove the tail stock and compound as well as the chuck. That reduces the load to what the hoist can handle. And don't skimp on the chain strength.

Now on the other hand you can see I lied about the chuck in the picture below. I wanted to lift it with two points so it lifted level I couldn't get that without running the carriage way to the end. And I didn't want to stress the bed by lifting at one point in the middle. So I put the chuck on so I could loop around the headstock and bed and get a level lift.

And all tested and trued. It's resting on 5/8 threaded "J" studs cast into the upper brick and a half with gravel filling the lower blocks. The lathe and tray sits on nuts on the studs and not on the blocks and concrete. The nuts are then used to level and true the bed using the "usual" test bars and other tricks to check for warping and correct it. The results are like a whole new machine. I no longer have an issue with it cutting a slight taper on longer work. I don't know if it's holding it over the long term but when I originally set it I kept adjusting until two cuts 10 inches apart on the test bar for "freely supported" were within a tenth. Then I zeroed up the tail stock to the head stock to something under a quarter thou. I was never able to adjust diddly when it was on the "tin boxes".

The steel box bases were also way too short for me. The new setup seen in this next picture puts the center of the headstock up at 48.5 inches off the mat in front of the machine. At first it felt WAY too high. But now there is just no way I'd want it any lower. It's absolutely fantastic on the back. I'm 6' 1" though. Someone significantly shorter might want it a few inches less.

 

[burnt_servo]

I like the concrete block idea . lots of mass to provide stability

 

[dead meat]

When I brought home my 15x48 Colechester it was on a car trailer, used the jack and blocks to lift the front of trailer up until the back end was on shop floor. The lathe was on steel rollers and attached to front of trailer with a comealong, slowly let it roll off trailer then across floor on rollers. Did all the work myself. Coming off the end of trailer was the tricky part, just went slowly and once all pressure was off the comealong it was moved to help pull lathe fully on to shop floor. Engine hoist I had was woefully inadequate for trying to lift a big old Colechester. It does help to remove motor and tailstock every bit helps. Not sure what your new machine weighs, a good engine hoist might do the job if it isn't made out of chineseiem. Oh ya Congrats on the machine, it looks clean and well looked after.

 

[bearhunter]

I like the concrete block idea . lots of mass to provide stability

The concrete block base works really well if it's done right.

BCRider did it properly and filled the blocks with concrete as well. I saw one that was set up on loose blocks and it turned into a disaster.


As for the height of the machine, it also depends on the jobs you do on it. I have three lathes. One which comes in very handy for making obsolete cartridges and parts which is a Unimat. A Grizzly and a Toyo. The Grizzly is at chest level and the Toyo is at belly button level. Also something not mentioned here, go down to Home Depot and pick up one of the 2 foot by 4 foot LED panels. They only draw about 75 watts and will give you lots of light without shadow. If your shop isn't heated they don't have ballasts that need to be warmed up before they give you enough light. Lots of light is extremely important. LEDs don't create heat either which can be a real blessing.

I also noticed he mentioned he cast bolts into the blocks for his chip tray/base and that he trued it all for level. This is extremely important. If the lathe base isn't absolutely true you will have issues that are proportional to the amount it is out of true. The frames on most lathes are massive in comparison to their size. There is a very good reason for this. Even with all of that mass, when the bolts through the feet are tightened if the lathe isn't level you will torque in distortion.

When I installed my milling machine and lathes I used a machinist level and stainless shims under the feet. You can do it with a regular carpenters level but you need to be extremely careful and fussy. A good machinist level will get you to dead level much faster and in all likelihood help you to do a better job. OP, if you don't have a machinist level you can likely rent one. Not many tradesmen have them let alone laborers. Reason being they are expensive and in truth they are a limited use item for special jobs. I used mine for aligning line drives that were a couple of hundred feet long with 20 foot shafts with bearings on 4 foot centers. If the line wasn't true the bearings didn't last and you had to pull a whole section to replace them.

 

[notsorichguy]

I've used engine hoists to move stuff around .

if your good at figuring out lifting capacity's you could make a couple of beams with legs out of something like two by twelves and use that to lift the lathe off of the trailer .


then there is everyones buddy [ and possible relation to kamlooky] ... AVE

That pretty much what I was figuring on, in the video..... And quite frankly it kinda scares me a bit!

I would go with the tilt deck trailer. Rent some equipment skates and a toe jack. The skates are steerable with a long handle. I would also rent an electric winch with hooks on both ends to lower from the trailer. Once it's on the concrete garage floor the skates will move it freely. If you can do everything with it only being a few inches off the floor you should be safe. Keep a lot of 2x4 and 4x4 dunnage on hand so you can reposition the skates and jacks quickly when you need to. Also, move your carriage all the way to the tailstock end to balance it a little better. It will probably still be heavy on the headstock end though.

Small machines like that are meant to be moved frequently so unless it gets dropped in transit everything will be fine. Would be a good idea to rent a very fine level for levelling the machine as well. If you were in Edmonton I'd lend you mine.

Hmmm, where could a guy rent skates..... That's perfect right there!

 

[notsorichguy]

I've moved some big stuff back with my father using pipes as rollers. It was pretty risky. Not only for running away off the slope of the trailer if you're not careful but also from a tipping standpoint. It's pretty top heavy and most of those tin bases don't have a large footprint.

If you remove some of the heavier bits you can cut down the weight of the head, bed and carriage to where you can lift it up safely with an engine hoist. Remove the tail stock and compound as well as the chuck. That reduces the load to what the hoist can handle. And don't skimp on the chain strength.

Now on the other hand you can see I lied about the chuck in the picture below. I wanted to lift it with two points so it lifted level I couldn't get that without running the carriage way to the end. And I didn't want to stress the bed by lifting at one point in the middle. So I put the chuck on so I could loop around the headstock and bed and get a level lift.

And all tested and trued. It's resting on 5/8 threaded "J" studs cast into the upper brick and a half with gravel filling the lower blocks. The lathe and tray sits on nuts on the studs and not on the blocks and concrete. The nuts are then used to level and true the bed using the "usual" test bars and other tricks to check for warping and correct it. The results are like a whole new machine. I no longer have an issue with it cutting a slight taper on longer work. I don't know if it's holding it over the long term but when I originally set it I kept adjusting until two cuts 10 inches apart on the test bar for "freely supported" were within a tenth. Then I zeroed up the tail stock to the head stock to something under a quarter thou. I was never able to adjust diddly when it was on the "tin boxes".

The steel box bases were also way too short for me. The new setup seen in this next picture puts the center of the headstock up at 48.5 inches off the mat in front of the machine. At first it felt WAY too high. But now there is just no way I'd want it any lower. It's absolutely fantastic on the back. I'm 6' 1" though. Someone significantly shorter might want it a few inches less.

That is pretty much what I was thinking about, using an engine hoist..... But I would need to shed some weight to lift it.... The unit weighs in at 2300-2500 lbs!

 

[notsorichguy]

The concrete block base works really well if it's done right.

BCRider did it properly and filled the blocks with concrete as well. I saw one that was set up on loose blocks and it turned into a disaster.


As for the height of the machine, it also depends on the jobs you do on it. I have three lathes. One which comes in very handy for making obsolete cartridges and parts which is a Unimat. A Grizzly and a Toyo. The Grizzly is at chest level and the Toyo is at belly button level. Also something not mentioned here, go down to Home Depot and pick up one of the 2 foot by 4 foot LED panels. They only draw about 75 watts and will give you lots of light without shadow. If your shop isn't heated they don't have ballasts that need to be warmed up before they give you enough light. Lots of light is extremely important. LEDs don't create heat either which can be a real blessing.

I also noticed he mentioned he cast bolts into the blocks for his chip tray/base and that he trued it all for level. This is extremely important. If the lathe base isn't absolutely true you will have issues that are proportional to the amount it is out of true. The frames on most lathes are massive in comparison to their size. There is a very good reason for this. Even with all of that mass, when the bolts through the feet are tightened if the lathe isn't level you will torque in distortion.

When I installed my milling machine and lathes I used a machinist level and stainless shims under the feet. You can do it with a regular carpenters level but you need to be extremely careful and fussy. A good machinist level will get you to dead level much faster and in all likelihood help you to do a better job. OP, if you don't have a machinist level you can likely rent one. Not many tradesmen have them let alone laborers. Reason being they are expensive and in truth they are a limited use item for special jobs. I used mine for aligning line drives that were a couple of hundred feet long with 20 foot shafts with bearings on 4 foot centers. If the line wasn't true the bearings didn't last and you had to pull a whole section to replace them.

I do not have much "machinist" tool-ish..... But I have a buddy, who I plan on enlisting to the cause, who does..... It's really good to know people!

Lots of good advice in this thread. Thanks fellas!

 

[laurencen]

machine movers work great, to lower the machine a good engine crane, take weight then drive trailer out, lower on the movers, basically 4 small dollies with rollers, we move machines 25,000 pounds with ease.

where are you located, I have set here in the shop

 

[tigrr]

Rent a big bobcat with forks. Piece of cake. Some rental companies deliver and pick up the machines. Where you located?

 

[tiriaq]

Pieces of pipe can be used as rollers to waltz a lathe around a room.

 

[terry_g]

Congratulations on the new lathe. I would estimate it weighs around 1000Lbs
including the stand. I have a similar lathe 12x36 Craftex that was dropped off in my garage
in 2 crates. I used an engine hoist to set it up on the cabinets and move it around.
Remember a lathe is very top heavy.

I'm tall and found the height too low so I laminated some 3/4" plywood pads to go under the stand raising it 3".
A big improvement.

Terry

 

[Leeper]

The first time I moved my 13x40, I was 36 years old and pretty fit. I fastened it to a 2x12 and horsed it around and down into the basement. I used a come-along to let it down the stairs. I moved the stand separately. When I moved it again, four years later, I removed the headstock and packed it up the stairs, same with the motor. I then tied it to an appliance dolly, horsed it up the stairs and into the truck then reversed the procedure to put it in the new basement. Next move was two years later and followed about the same procedure. This time the unloading was easy since it was going into a shed. The last move was from the shed to the basement. I took the headstock loose but, when I went to pick it up, was it ever heavy! I was now nearing fifty and gravity seemed to really be gaining the upper hand. I managed to pack the headstock to the truck and heave it into the back. I then removed the carriage, motor, lead screw and feed shaft so I had only the stripped bed to move. With considerable effort, I was able to just pick this up and stagger along with it. I got it into the pick-up and could drive to within about fifteen feet of the walk-in basement. I got two sawhorses and was able carry the bed about five or six steps and rest the lathe bed on the sawhorse. While I balanced the lathe bed, my wife would move the other sawhorse ahead ten feet or so and I would, once more, lift and stagger. got the lathe in place and it has been there for about eighteen years. If it has to be moved again, I won't be doing it. My back is ruined (no kidding!) and I have nothing to prove. Now, at 67, thinking about lifting anything heavier than a Twinkie causes me to break out in a sweat.

 

[fingers284]

I have basically the same lathe as you just bought and have moved it 3 times. I don't know where your figure of 2500 lbs comes from but Terry G is a lot closer with his estimate. I seem to remember a shipping weight of 1200 lbs at the time of purchase for mine.

Anyhow back to the move. The first thing I did was remove the lathe bed from the stand/base, only 4 bolts and five minutes to remove. Now the lathe will ride very much more stable in your trailer and be a lot less cumbersome to lift. Four more little bolts out to disassemble and the stand can be carried by hand.

A $200 dollar engine hoist (kijiji) as is pictured by BC will easily move & lift the lathe bed for re-assembly. That cost is recoupable after your done with it. Another way (I did this when my machine was new from the store) is to hang a boat winch ($40 from Princess ) between a couple of supported rafters and lift & slide a couple feet at a time until it's where you want it.

I have never had any help of any kind for any of the moves and I think the most it ever took me to do a re-set was 3 hrs from start to a level, running machine. It was actually better doing it myself as I didn't have anybody hurrying something that needed to be handled judiciously and I didn't have to worry about someone elses fingers or toes...I knew where mine were all the time.

When you reassemble the lathe to the base and if your floor isn't perfectly level you can shim the lathe bed flat & level with washers under the 4 base mounting bolts. On my last move I even shimmed the coolant pan to have a slight slope to drain coolant to the one end so coolant drains easily. You shim the high end with washers under the splash pan and shim the low end with washers between the lathe bed and pan, this way the lathe stays level but the pan has the slope.

The only real important thing is to make sure you have your rigging situated and spreader-bared so that the lathe lifts even from end to end and side to side so it doesn't shift when it is hanging (if it shifts while being lifted, handles, dials and such may be damaged).

Just checked Grizzly site, same basic machine without base shipping weight is 1020 lbs.

 

[notsorichguy]

machine movers work great, to lower the machine a good engine crane, take weight then drive trailer out, lower on the movers, basically 4 small dollies with rollers, we move machines 25,000 pounds with ease.

where are you located, I have set here in the shop

I'm in Regina SK, the lathe is 15-20km south of town.

I really would appreciate the loan of machinery dolly's! I have a friend with a bobcat and forks. But he's also 2 hrs away....

At this point I'm seriously considering hiring a mover as long as it's not a ton of $$.....

 

[notsorichguy]

Congratulations on the new lathe. I would estimate it weighs around 1000Lbs
including the stand. I have a similar lathe 12x36 Craftex that was dropped off in my garage
in 2 crates. I used an engine hoist to set it up on the cabinets and move it around.
Remember a lathe is very top heavy.

I'm tall and found the height too low so I laminated some 3/4" plywood pads to go under the stand raising it 3".
A big improvement.

Terry

Well that's a good piece of info.... The spec sheet with the manual stated 2300 lbs, but that is likely the whole package, including the extra chuck etc.

I was thinking a sheet of 1/2" steel on the concrete floor would make for a nice solid footing. I didn't build the garage, but I would be surprised if the floor is thicker than 4".... The floor is pretty level where I'm planning on setting the machine up, but it's isn't perfect!