I hate my Glock

Swap out the sights for something decent, get use to the grip angle and dry fire the crap out of it between range sessions. Your groups will improve greatly.
Steel355 said:
Here's why...

I picked up a Glock 22 RTF Gen 3 about a little over a month ago. I've fired approx 500 round through it in that time. And I have that worst grouping with this gun... At 7 meters I have at best 7" to 8" grouping with it, With my CZ SP-01 Shadow I'm in the 2" to max 3" range. I even have tighter grouping with my Norinco 45 then with the Glock.
I've tried changing the way I grip it, different ammo and the results always seem to be about the same. Up, down, left, right...

So I'm thinking it's the trigger pull or the ergo's of the gun just doesn't fit my hand ???

I don't have small hands (mechanic gloves I wear a large and they fit snug)

So I'm open for suggestions because if things don't improve, it's off the my local gun store as a trade in...
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Still alive said:
Your point taken. If money was an issue and/ or you were only allowed one gun in your life., then a 1911 is a very good choice. (Hey, sounds like a good thread to start!) but most people on this site have more than one gun. Guns and associated costs are a wee bit cheaper than the cost of owning and running a car. Easier to have 10 different guns than 10 different cars.
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I like that idea. Let's start a thread "So you're trapped on an island, and you can have only one pistol, one brand of ammo, and one record/tape/cd (wow - I'm old) what would they be?
 
bollox said:
In my experience (actually owning, using, competing and "holding" unlike some others) I find Glocks to be very difficult to shoot for novices, then as people get more and more experienced they become much better with them.

I find Glocks very similar to DA revolvers, the people who can shoot them well, can shoot any handgun well.
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Definitely truth to that comparison. I always used to cheat by either shooting only SA out of a DA revolver and semi-auto and convince myself I was a good shot. Now I know I was fooling myself and shoot DA out of both. The transition between DA to SA out of a semi- auto is hardest of all IMO.
 
Armored Metal said:
It's not about sugar coating it, cutting to the chase or thick skin....It's all about knowing how to act with others.

Just like the vast majority of people that don't have an educated clue as to what they're doing with a firearm, You TDC, don't have an educated clue as to how to be sociable and how to behave with others.

I know you won't care but I actually feel sad for you Man.
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That's an odd assessment from someone who has never met me. I've been teaching the PAL course for over a decade and yet I'm still swamped with calls to do more courses, and I don't advertise. It must be my ignorant rough attitude that keeps them coming back. We're all a little different in the personality department. I'm long on facts and short on tolerance for stupid people who spout stupid sh*t. If you don't want my opinion or don't want to hear the truth, don't ask for it.

I appreciate your concern, but I'm just fine. How are you?

Wretched said:
Oh girls!

Stop with the bickering, already.

I don't like Glock either. I've never even held one. But the Glock fan-boys are just too much.
It's unfair, and I'm probably missing out on a good deal because of it - but I can't seem to muster the courage to even give it a serious look.

Again, I mostly chalk it up to personal experience. The most outrageous and sometimes offensive club I've had the misfortune of meeting is that of all the rejects from GlockLoveSchool.

Sure, most of them are articulate and smart - but all the really BIG doozies are in there too.

TDC comes across as being one, but I've never met him in person.

The 1911. That's all you need IMHO
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So you admit you've never held nor fired a Glock but feel informed enough to dismiss them due to your interactions with some pro Glock folks? Sounds like you're trying to win a popularity contest. Then again, your last line about 1911's is not a surprise and confirms your method of approach. If you want to see real ignorance just look at many in the 1911 fanboy club, but that's for another thread.

As for you missing out by not trying a Glock, you'd be correct. However I don't think you're interested in boringly reliable, dead simple functional tools like Glocks. You're likely more of a "lets spend hours talking about kitchen table gunsmithing of our unreliable, overweight, outdated dinosaur guns with shiny steel slides and tacky logo'd grips(see punisher). I'm a fan of Glocks, but not because its a Glock. I'm a fan of guns that are simple, reliable and work. That narrows the field significantly.

Wretched said:
Yes, I chalk up to personal experience based on the interactions I've had with certain people whom are Glock fan-boys.
You see, I don't even want to be associated with a brand that is represented by knuckle heads.

I also clearly state that it is a biased opinion (in that I have never even held one, and it is probably unfair, and that I'm probably shortchanging myself the experience).

You're doing a pretty good job of upholding that bias for me.

Thanks for playing..
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Again, its a biased IGNORANT opinion. I appreciate the fact that you pointed out that it is indeed your opinion and not fact. However, even your opinion has zero merit as its based on exactly zero personal experience. So it begs the question, who's really the ignorant hater, Glock guys or those who sh*t on them without ever handling one, shooting one, or understanding the fundamentals of marksmanship?

TDC
 
TDC said:
That's an odd assessment from someone who has never met me. I've been teaching the PAL course for over a decade and yet I'm still swamped with calls to do more courses, and I don't advertise. It must be my ignorant rough attitude that keeps them coming back. We're all a little different in the personality department. I'm long on facts and short on tolerance for stupid people who spout stupid sh*t. If you don't want my opinion or don't want to hear the truth, don't ask for it.

I appreciate your concern, but I'm just fine. How are you?



So you admit you've never held nor fired a Glock but feel informed enough to dismiss them due to your interactions with some pro Glock folks? Sounds like you're trying to win a popularity contest. Then again, your last line about 1911's is not a surprise and confirms your method of approach. If you want to see real ignorance just look at many in the 1911 fanboy club, but that's for another thread.

As for you missing out by not trying a Glock, you'd be correct. However I don't think you're interested in boringly reliable, dead simple functional tools like Glocks. You're likely more of a "lets spend hours talking about kitchen table gunsmithing of our unreliable, overweight, outdated dinosaur guns with shiny steel slides and tacky logo'd grips(see punisher). I'm a fan of Glocks, but not because its a Glock. I'm a fan of guns that are simple, reliable and work. That narrows the field significantly.



Again, its a biased IGNORANT opinion. I appreciate the fact that you pointed out that it is indeed your opinion and not fact. However, even your opinion has zero merit as its based on exactly zero personal experience. So it begs the question, who's really the ignorant hater, Glock guys or those who sh*t on them without ever handling one, shooting one, or understanding the fundamentals of marksmanship?

TDC
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Hmm. Well I certainly appreciate your input. :)
 
Let me add some basic and useful tips for those willing to stow their pride and ego.

Dry firing is great, if you understand proper trigger finger placement and trigger control. What dry fire can't help you with is flinching. Lots of guys can dry fire their guns and be steady as a rock. Toss in live ammo and its flinch city, why? Your brain knows the gun is unloaded when you dry fire(I know, ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED) and thus has no need to flinch as nothing is making noise and flying back at you(the slide that is). When a solid dry fire shooter hits the range and sprays bullets all over the target he's confused and angry. What you need to do in addition to dry fire practice is have a buddy load your gun for you, or not. If you don't know if there is indeed a chambered round your brain won't be preprogrammed to flinch. If you do indeed flinch on an empty chamber you'll clearly see it. If you shoot alone you can do it with snap caps but its not as effective as you watch them being loaded and know that a snap cap is coming(if you didn't count when you loaded it).

Here's a couple terms the novice needs to research and understand.

Leading thumbs grip

Sight alignment

Sight picture

Trigger finger placement

Trigger control/working the trigger

Working the reset.

If you don't know the definitions to the above, you need to look them up.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Let me add some basic and useful tips for those willing to stow their pride and ego.

Dry firing is great, if you understand proper trigger finger placement and trigger control. What dry fire can't help you with is flinching. Lots of guys can dry fire their guns and be steady as a rock. Toss in live ammo and its flinch city, why? Your brain knows the gun is unloaded when you dry fire(I know, ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED) and thus has no need to flinch as nothing is making noise and flying back at you(the slide that is). When a solid dry fire shooter hits the range and sprays bullets all over the target he's confused and angry. What you need to do in addition to dry fire practice is have a buddy load your gun for you, or not. If you don't know if there is indeed a chambered round your brain won't be preprogrammed to flinch. If you do indeed flinch on an empty chamber you'll clearly see it. If you shoot alone you can do it with snap caps but its not as effective as you watch them being loaded and know that a snap cap is coming(if you didn't count when you loaded it).

Here's a couple terms the novice needs to research and understand.

Leading thumbs grip

Sight alignment

Sight picture

Trigger finger placement

Trigger control/working the trigger

Working the reset.

If you don't know the definitions to the above, you need to look them up.

TDC
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All being said, TDC, excellent point!
Flinching is the number one spoiler of fun shooting and improvement in accuracy. When I instructed firearms 25 yrs ago, we did the exact same drill with a revolver. I would load live and empties and pass the gun to the student. The results are immediate and incontestable! For new shooters, this is 100% the best drill for accuracy, trigger control and anxiety!
 
TDC said:
Let me add some basic and useful tips for those willing to stow their pride and ego.

Dry firing is great, if you understand proper trigger finger placement and trigger control. What dry fire can't help you with is flinching. Lots of guys can dry fire their guns and be steady as a rock. Toss in live ammo and its flinch city, why? Your brain knows the gun is unloaded when you dry fire(I know, ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED) and thus has no need to flinch as nothing is making noise and flying back at you(the slide that is). When a solid dry fire shooter hits the range and sprays bullets all over the target he's confused and angry. What you need to do in addition to dry fire practice is have a buddy load your gun for you, or not. If you don't know if there is indeed a chambered round your brain won't be preprogrammed to flinch. If you do indeed flinch on an empty chamber you'll clearly see it. If you shoot alone you can do it with snap caps but its not as effective as you watch them being loaded and know that a snap cap is coming(if you didn't count when you loaded it).

Here's a couple terms the novice needs to research and understand.

Leading thumbs grip

Sight alignment

Sight picture

Trigger finger placement

Trigger control/working the trigger

Working the reset.

If you don't know the definitions to the above, you need to look them up.

TDC
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Again -totally appreciate your contribution to the conversation. Same with the last guy.
I tend to be sarcastic, and hope we can all just put the alpha-male thing aside for a second.

Believe me, I read each of your posts with an open mind. I think I grasp the fundamental argument you present.
But not everyone will. They won't be able to get past the *tone* of the post at all.

Maybe something to consider. Or , maybe not.
 
TDC

Nothing odd with my assessement. One of the instructors I've had over the years, was like you, a knowledgable guy with whom I would have trained again. However, due to his lack of social abilities, I would not have invited him over to the family BBQ.

I don't think you're ignorant and I don't feel concerned. I just feel bad for you...but that's me, that's how I'm made.

I'm doing OK. Thanks for asking.

Good night Man.
 
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Armored Metal said:
TDC

Nothing odd with my assessement. One of the instructors I've had over the years, was like you, a knowledgable guy with whom I would have trained again. However, due to his lack of social abilities, I would not have invited him over to the family BBQ.

I don't think you're ignorant and I don't feel concerned. I just feel bad for you...but that's me, that's how I'm made.

I'm doing OK. Thanks for asking.

Good night Man.
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you're somewhat correct. I don't like to socialize with people because many of them feel the need to "be polite" or compliment people when their honest feelings are otherwise. If I come over for dinner and it tastes like sh*t, I'll tell you, but don't take it personally. ;)

TDC
 
TDC said:
Let me add some basic and useful tips for those willing to stow their pride and ego.

Dry firing is great, if you understand proper trigger finger placement and trigger control. What dry fire can't help you with is flinching. Lots of guys can dry fire their guns and be steady as a rock. Toss in live ammo and its flinch city, why? Your brain knows the gun is unloaded when you dry fire(I know, ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED) and thus has no need to flinch as nothing is making noise and flying back at you(the slide that is). When a solid dry fire shooter hits the range and sprays bullets all over the target he's confused and angry. What you need to do in addition to dry fire practice is have a buddy load your gun for you, or not. If you don't know if there is indeed a chambered round your brain won't be preprogrammed to flinch. If you do indeed flinch on an empty chamber you'll clearly see it. If you shoot alone you can do it with snap caps but its not as effective as you watch them being loaded and know that a snap cap is coming(if you didn't count when you loaded it).

Here's a couple terms the novice needs to research and understand.

Leading thumbs grip

Sight alignment

Sight picture

Trigger finger placement

Trigger control/working the trigger

Working the reset.

If you don't know the definitions to the above, you need to look them up.

TDC
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To add to this, remember that the bullet is simply following the direction of the barrel when the trigger is pulled. So shooting way off target means the barrel was pointed there when the trigger was pulled. Spend some time learning what hand movements make the barrel move in certain directions and then take steps to reduce that movement. Learning to quickly diagnose your shooting problems can save a ton of ammo.

An easy way to see some of the mistakes at home is to take a simple dollar store laser and tape/strap/twist tie it to your gun. Now dry fire it and watch that dot dance on the wall. Work on making that little dot not move when you pull the trigger. This will help a lot. Working on a flinch will need range time and tossing in dummy rounds as suggested will help identify how bad your flinch is.

Good luck!
 
I shoot a shadow regularly for ipsc.
I bought a gen 4 glock 17..I could not shoot the damn thing.I know its a learning curve with a glock. I decided I would have to commit to shooting a glock full time to get used to its awful,sight picture and trigger,or sell it.
I sold it.
 
TDC said:
triggers, grips, springs etc are just crutches. There are untold numbers of shooters who run their glocks stock without issue, so why the need for these gimmicky items? Are some of you so different that you're incapable of applying the fundamentals without them? Does a set of racing seats and a roll cage make you a better driver? Nope! Stop buying/bolting stupif SH!t to your guns and put the money towards some training.

It simply baffles me why people are so resistant to improving their skill set. Put your pride aside, you are not a natural born gunfighter, you suck at it. Take a course, they're tons of fun. You'll improve your skill set and save money and time with future purchases.

To the op. Have you attended any professional training courses/classes? I guess this question could go out to everyone.

Tdc
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Nah bro you need two tanks of NOS for that. Then you will win all the races.


To the OP, polymer handguns(no experience on my part on walthers) are less forgiving to poor form, be it grip, poor finger placement on trigger, flinching etc. And no it's not a striker thing only. My HK P30L with the LEM light trigger is equally as unforgiving as any glock when it comes to making me look like a clot when I make a mistake. I don't care how many rounds you have popped through your cz, from what I have seen, every improvement I have made on my P30L has translated to improvements when I shoot a sig 226 or a cz75. The heavier metal frame guns hide my flinch a lot better than my polymer guns. It isn't gone, I am slowly mitigating my flinch. But I completely disagree with some of the statements about glocks being bad starter pistols. If you are serious about shooting, it will force you to learn the basics. And you will be a better shot for it. If I started with the sig 226 instead of the P30L I would still be embarrasingly flinchy the moment i pulled the trigger on a light polymer handgun.


On a sidenote, TDC posted the correct information then went about his business. Stop taking it as a personal attack. Just gather what information you can from it, and move along. If you want to feel special buy a bottle of johnie walker blue label, sit back and enjoy a glass of that.
 
misanthropist said:
Why can't I play my Les Paul?

I noodled around for a few hours. I found I couldn't make notes nearly as well as on the Yamaha classical I bought last year. The strings are really hard and the neck is really thick but the strings are a lot closer together than on my classical.

I've never taken any lessons, because I just want to play for fun. I'm thinking I might trade in the Les Paul because it plays so badly.


TAKE SOME DAMN LESSONS
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Or just play the thing...... Though playing guitar is not as costly as putting lead down range.
Lessons tend to speed things along and avoid bad habits that become harder to break with time.
 
misanthropist said:
Why can't I play my Les Paul?

I noodled around for a few hours. I found I couldn't make notes nearly as well as on the Yamaha classical I bought last year. The strings are really hard and the neck is really thick but the strings are a lot closer together than on my classical.

I've never taken any lessons, because I just want to play for fun. I'm thinking I might trade in the Les Paul because it plays so badly.


TAKE SOME DAMN LESSONS
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Or just play the thing...... Though playing guitar is not as costly as putting lead down range.
Lessons tend to speed things along and avoid bad habits that become harder to break with time.
 
Still alive said:
Definitely truth to that comparison. I always used to cheat by either shooting only SA out of a DA revolver and semi-auto and convince myself I was a good shot. Now I know I was fooling myself and shoot DA out of both. The transition between DA to SA out of a semi- auto is hardest of all IMO.
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Man the truth hurts :)
 
I picked up a Girsan 16, my first pistol. I didn't want a DA or a SA/DA but I've been learning with it. I'm not new to shooting , but I only ever shot rifles (hunting) and the fundamentals help a bit but don't exactly translate to pistol shooting. I've only put 30 rds down range with it so far but I made a point of focusing on my form. Grip, Trigger, Flinch all that. I've only just started but Pistol is so different from rifle that the flinch so far hasn't seemed to be a factor. I practice dry firing a lot at home with it, and that mile long 13 lbs pull (for those of you who shoot M9's & 92s and know) is teaching me a lot about my trigger control. A more seasoned friend of mine says the trigger on the Girsan is a bit sloppy. I have no experience to disagree with him, but it's what I'm learning on and I'm fine with it. I'll probably take it to one of the amateur 3 gun matches that happen in my neck of the woods even though it isn't a "race gun". I'll do fine, I'll learn, and the fundamentals will be all important. In real life the first shot is probably the most important, so I'm going master that DA pull. Even if I do get my Hi Power and drool over its crisp SA trigger.
 
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