"...I think I would like to try competitive precision shooting"

MOA is an angular measurement. 1/2 MOA gets proportionally bigger the further out you go.

1/2" at 100, 2.5" at 500yds (close enough anyways).

The 'size' of target F class shooters see therefore stays very similar regardless of distance. The big variable is the effect of conditions.

By BR standards, F class targets are HUGE. However, a perfect score has yet to be shot as far as I know. The style of the event makes changing conditions a norm. Without alot of visual aids like flags, an F class shooter has to be very skilled at watching ambient conditions - not an easy task.

I too campaign a rebarreled Savage and Stevens. For F class, a good barrel on a properly set up factory action WILL shoot winning scores. I feel it is one of the least expensive forms of competition shooting.

Pretty sure that the top 4 places at last years Farky all were factory action based rifles. There were a number of customs on the line.

Haven't seen results from many BC events but I am sure you will find a few Rems in the top spots.

www.6mmbr.com gun of the week #75 is my idea of a better mousetrap. As pictured, it can be less money then some will pay for a BR action alone. It is competitive if the nut behind the butt gets the wind calls properly.

The style of F class and the opportunity at lower costs is what attracted me to this competition. This is truly an event where you can't buy your way to the podium and an enormous range of combo's can work.

As for the 308/223 not being as good as the 6BR, I think it boils down to the driving skill of the shooter. If I remember correctly, I was put into 2nd place at the Farky by a 308 a couple of years back. By 1 pt, but that is all it took.

There is no doubt driving popular Open chamberings is so much easier then the 223/308 but equal scores are possible.

Jerry
 
The essential difference between F-Class and BR is the way results are scored...

In BR, these shooters try to create very tight groups regardless of where their shots land, so they chase the same hole and they generally shoot very quickly to eliminate wild changes in conditions.

In F-Class (And TR) , there is a dude hiding below your target in the butts. When you shoot one round, he pulls your target down, places a bright pink marker in your bullet hole and also places a score indicator on the edge of the target that corresponds with the point value of your shot. He then raises your target so you can see where your shot landed. You repeat this process for every shot.

In the time it takes to pull and mark a target, conditions change a great deal. Your challenge is to try and hit the center of the target each time. This sort of shooting is called "Score" or "Application" shooting. The BR guys shoot for group, we shoot for score, and some BR events shoot for both at the same time.

The very best and most serious F-Class open shooters try and build guns that group like BR rifles so that they remain in complete control of where their shots land. in perfect conditions, a .4 MOA rifle aimed in the middle could win a match. The reality is it leaves NO room for changing conditions. A little left wind combined with a shot that wants to land left and you are outside of the honey hole. The good news is that scoring is such that this is not the end of the line... keep plugging away!

fclasstarget.jpg


Richard and I tried the new ICFRA 35mm targets during the winter league and we both shot perfect possibles. Only, Richard kept his! Here is that target. This was shot with a Remington XR-100 and a set-back and re-chambered custom barrel in 6BR. Before everyone freaks out and believes they couldn't possibly shoot like that with their own factory rifles, bear in mind that A) the inner and outer rings here are actually worth the same amount of points (in other words hitting within a .8 moa circle is all that is needed)! This inner ring is called a "V-Bull" and they act as a tie-breaker. If two people shot the same score, they use the V-Count to break the tie.

Also... B) at the"Running of the V-Bulls!" match, this larger 70mm ring with be the V-Bull for factory guns and the next larger ring will be several inches across. In other words, a 1MOA factory rifle could win the factory class!!! There is no reason to be intimidated at all.

oh yeah... C) Richard doesn't know it yet, but I used his barrel to jack my van up to change the tire. The rest of us should have a chance.
 
Great Post Obtunded! Knowing that there are alot of people like you in this sport gives me the motivation I really needed to get off my rear and start taking in some competitions and practice shoots (I'm filling my ORA application as soon as I post this :D). Thanks for the encouragement. Hopefully someday I will make it out west to tthe ranges with you.

Cheers, Marc
 
Yes, good post

But..... laff,,,,

You forgot to mention another difference. With BR shooting I believe your sitting at a bench with a coffee on the next bench, the idea being to shoot quick before the wind/weather conditions change and ruin a chance at "THEE" group.

With F-Class your shooting PRONE in the grass (in the O.R.A.) and you don't have coffee next to you (i wish) , you have ants and grasshoppers instead, if you do manage to sneak a coffee up there with you to shoot the ants and grasshoppers usually drink more than you do. And the secret is to learn to read the wind/weather changes and still be able to put your shot in the center anyways. Alot of the better F-class shooters (obtunded included) manage to do this and they do it out to 1000 yds.

And there aren't alot of people like Obtunded,,, laff, that's why he's so special, laff.:D

And if your planning on filling out an O.R.A membership form and you just happen to find your self in the Barrie distict, I can get you out to Borden to see first hand what we/they do there. Check the O.R.A web site for the event schedule and pm me if you see something you like.

Mike
 
Last edited:
For those worried about being competitive using a .308 or .223 it's not as big a hurdle to compete with the wonderguns as you might expect.

The High score in the 2009 Manitoba PRA Lt. Governor's matches was posted by a .308 shooter, two points above the closest F(O) gun.

Third high score in the three day Grand Agg was also a .308 shooter, only 4 points down from the top F(O) shooter and 2 down from the second place F(O)finisher.

It's all about reading the wind and not making mental mistakes when it counts. Nearly everyone who came to the MPRA shoot brought a gun that could have taken the match. What separated the top shooters from the bulk was experience reading the wind and keeping a cool head under pressure.
 
Hey Ian! Great posting! Im just getting start and have purchased a Savage 12 F class from ATRS here in Calgary. Just waiting on nightforce optics and a set of dyes. I havent done any serious shooting in the past, but hoping to change that. Have being reading on your Frosty Farky shoot and wouldnt mind coming out for it. Just not sure if my optics will be here. I also have a browning 22-250 that I have being praticing on and would use it if my 6.5 isnt ready to go. Just not sure what is all invalve in these shoots. If you could give me some advice as to this. I would greatly apprecate it.

K.
 
Hi Kelly,

In a nutshell, we give a fairly good orientation talk in the morning to get new shooters familiar with what is happening. Also, There are several of us at these shoots that are always on hand to ask if you aren't sure about things, but...

We assign all the shooters to a particular target. There are several realays of shooters that shoot on the same target in turns throughout the day. Whie you are shooting, the fellow that shot ahead of you sits behind and scores your shots for you. When you are finished your string, you in-turn mark for the next shooter. Typical F-Class shoots have strings of 10 to 20 shots, and in the case of the Farky, this is a 300M match in which you will shoot 5 times at 300M over the 2 days of the shoot.

There are awards for the highest points per day as well as for the over-all totals in each class. We also recognize the top new shooter as well!

We have several shooters from Alberta that typically come out and I see "Inspector" from CGN (Glen Taylor) is going to be coming out, as well as Kieth S from Sakatchewan.

There are also two excellent matches held at Homestead range in Alberta in the fall, the 8-900M John Howard memorial Palma match, and the Gil Hurst "Frost on the Pumpkin" 300- 900M match. These are open to F-CLass and TR shooters. I will be coming out to both of these myself.

I hope you'll give it some thought! These matches are a blast!

Ian
 
Thanks Ian,
Sounds like it will be a good time and will be a good roadtrip. I would be interested in the friday deal too. Count me in, will get the entry out to you this week.
 
prairieguy said:
For those worried about being competitive using a .308 or .223 it's not as big a hurdle to compete with the wonderguns as you might expect.

The High score in the 2009 Manitoba PRA Lt. Governor's matches was posted by a .308 shooter, two points above the closest F(O) gun.

Third high score in the three day Grand Agg was also a .308 shooter, only 4 points down from the top F(O) shooter and 2 down from the second place F(O)finisher.

It's all about reading the wind and not making mental mistakes when it counts. Nearly everyone who came to the MPRA shoot brought a gun that could have taken the match. What separated the top shooters from the bulk was experience reading the wind and keeping a cool head under pressure.
Click to expand...

Les is right. .308's finished 3 and 4 in the Governor General's, behind 2 open shooters.
 
Ice-Pick said:
But..... laff,,,,

You forgot to mention another difference. With BR shooting I believe your sitting at a bench with a coffee on the next bench, the idea being to shoot quick before the wind/weather conditions change and ruin a chance at "THEE" group.

Mike
Click to expand...

It's unfortunate that you think that.
You should attend a benchrest match and see how hard it is. It takes a lifetime to become good at this.

Mike.
 
I have nothing but the greatest respect for BR shooters and I have absolutely no illusions how simple, easy or straight forward it may be. It is a discipline I would very much like to try; I hope this subtle hint will prompt someone to steer me in the direction of BR match close to my Kamloops-ish home!

I have a new gain twist Krieger sitting here waiting for a 6PPC chambering on a Nesika J action.
 
Obtunded said:
I have nothing but the greatest respect for BR shooters and I have absolutely no illusions how simple, easy or straight forward it may be. It is a discipline I would very much like to try; I hope this subtle hint will prompt someone to steer me in the direction of BR match close to my Kamloops-ish home!

I have a new gain twist Krieger sitting here waiting for a 6PPC chambering on a Nesika J action.
Click to expand...

As far as I know there is nothing in the Kamloops area. JoeM may get something going at Mission next year.

The closest for you would be Calgary (Rosebud) for a group shoot. We shoot Aug 22/23 and also Sept 5/6/7. This range is part of the Homestead ranges.

Details at www.benchrest.ca

Rick
 
Time to put this one back on top. Had a conversation with a newbie last night and referred him to this thread.

I just wish that we could collectively convince more new shooters to come out and give it a try. I know a few that are so intimidated by the distance and their perceived shortcomings in skill and equipment that they won't give it a go. If I could get them out once I know the'd be back but it's that first hurdle that seems insurmountable.
 
You're right Les. Lots of folks in my area say they don't have a good enough rifle, but when I point out that I'll bring everything they need except their lunch, they usually admit that they don't want to look foolish. Pride is a very tough thing to put on the shelf, but I've discovered that it gets easier each time I'm forced to do it!

Seeing the ear to ear grin the first time the target comes up w/ a hit indicated is worth the effort though.
 
redman said:
All this is good and well, but what about those of us way out in Eastern Canada?? :( I'd love to participate in something like this that was in my neck of the woods.

Aside, why use F-class as an introductory vehicle to precision shooting? Wouldn't disciplines involving less accessories be more accessible to new shooters? What about fullbore match rifle shooting: no scope & bipod - two less accessories to buy...

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...
Besides the rifle & diopter peep sights on a fullbore target rifle:

-Spotting scope & stand, $1100-1300

-Shooting matt, $80

-Shooting coat, $200

-Shooting glove, $30

-Shooting sling, $50

-"Rest-pod", $30

-Helpful instructions from very kind veteran shooters, =priceless
 
I attended the Mission season opener yesterday and was blown away by the number of new shooters! I only recognized about half the shooters there!! These guys came out with their remingtons, savages, winchesters and everything in between and we all had fun!!

I hope the new guys that came out to this shoot will back me up on this, but this could not have been more new-shooter friendly. It was nice to see! Kamloops matches are run by a keen young, relatively recent addition to the shooting scene - CyaN1de! and he and I both remember being freaked out by all this fancy crap we'd never seen, and that was in the days when a factory 223 was scored against a custom 6BR. We have more classifications than ever before and as always, we love to shoot the breeze with new shooters.

Cheers,

Ian
 
Obtunded said:
I attended the Mission season opener yesterday and was blown away by the number of new shooters! I only recognized about half the shooters there!! These guys came out with their remingtons, savages, winchesters and everything in between and we all had fun!!

I hope the new guys that came out to this shoot will back me up on this, but this could not have been more new-shooter friendly. It was nice to see! Kamloops matches are run by a keen young, relatively recent addition to the shooting scene - CyaN1de! and he and I both remember being freaked out by all this fancy crap we'd never seen, and that was in the days when a factory 223 was scored against a custom 6BR. We have more classifications than ever before and as always, we love to shoot the breeze with new shooters.

Cheers,

Ian
Click to expand...

That's hugly encouraging Ian. Now to try and maintain some of the interest!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom