i want a 200yd 1MOA rifle for $500 to $800

I have seen my share of nay-sayers, but this thread seems to be extra-full of them.
I have at least two, possibly three 22 rimfire rifles that will shoot sub moa at 200 meters with the right ammo. [5 shots]
It is true, the wind plays games, but on a calm early AM, it is quite possible, and repeatable.
I shot 3 consecutive groups with my 40X at 200M that were sub-moa, and 2 of those were under ½ moa.
Here's proof..... Squares are ½" on 1st and 3rd group, 1" on center group.



Regards, Eagleye.
 
Teac said:
There seems to be a bit of confusion by OP and others what he really wants....

There is no such thing as 200 yards 1 MOA.

MOA = minute of angle and remains the same no matter what distance.

What changes is the circle you can describe if you draw a line through two lines at a certain angle at a certain distance.

What this comes down to is that 1 moa happens to be more or less equal to 1 inch at 100 m/yards (give or take a little).

At 200m the 1 moa rifle would spread in a circle with 2 inch diameter. etc.

regardless though, what OP probably wants doesnt exist.
Click to expand...

Everyone here is well aware of what MOA is... and while "minute of angle" is linear, accuracy expressed in MOA at a given "increasing distance" is NOT linear... hence his request for a gun that could have MOA accuracy in LR at 200 yards... and the folks here appear to believe that it is a "pipe dream." Even so, I have done it many times... but certainly NOT with any consistency. Wind is not the only factor that magnifies exponentially at greater distance... but so does "human error", of which I am amply blessed.
 
Teac said:
There seems to be a bit of confusion by OP and others what he really wants....

There is no such thing as 200 yards 1 MOA. 2" @ 200 yds

MOA = minute of angle and remains the same no matter what distance.

What changes is the circle you can describe if you draw a line through two lines at a certain angle at a certain distance.

What this comes down to is that 1 moa happens to be more or less equal to 1 inch at 100 m/yards (give or take a little). And 2" @ 200 yds, 3" @ 300 yds...

At 200m the 1 moa rifle would spread in a circle with 2 inch diameter. etc. Rifles do not spread in circles and rifles that shoot 1 MOA at 100 yds will probably not hold 1 MOA at 200 yds. Its rarely that linear.

regardless though, what OP probably wants doesnt exist. O RLY?
Click to expand...

Yep
 
hoytcanon said:
Everyone here is well aware of what MOA is... and while "minute of angle" is linear, accuracy expressed in MOA at a given "increasing distance" is NOT linear... hence his request for a gun that could have MOA accuracy in LR at 200 yards... and the folks here appear to believe that it is a "pipe dream." Even so, I have done it many times... but certainly NOT with any consistency. Wind is not the only factor that magnifies exponentially at greater distance... but so does "human error", of which I am amply blessed.
Click to expand...

I believe it is linear.
 
Teac said:
I believe it is linear.
Click to expand...

Spoken like a math major... not a shooter. Talk to any long distance shooter and they will tell you that accuracy decreases to a greater or lesser exponential degree as distance increases... period. Now get out there and try to prove me wrong... bring LOTS of ammo.
 
hoytcanon said:
Spoken like a math major... not a shooter. Talk to any long distance shooter and they will tell you that accuracy decreases to a greater or lesser exponential degree as distance increases... period. Now get out there and try to prove me wrong... bring LOTS of ammo.
Click to expand...

sorry if it offends you but MOA is linear. I am aware that shooting at longer distances becomes more difficult. That doesnt change the fact that moa is independent of distance and most people saying things like "I shoot 2 moa at 200m" really mean that their bullets ended up in a 2" circle which is a big difference. It leads to the problem that you have no clue what people mean and how they are shooting
 
So am I right in saying a 1" group @ 200yds would mean 1/2" @ 100yds?
I understand it as 1 moa @ 100yds is 1" and 2" at 200yds.
So is a rifle is able to shoot 2" @ 400yds, the rifle/ammo would be 1/2 moa combo?
 
Eagleye said:
I have seen my share of nay-sayers, but this thread seems to be extra-full of them.
I have at least two, possibly three 22 rimfire rifles that will shoot sub moa at 200 meters with the right ammo. [5 shots]
It is true, the wind plays games, but on a calm early AM, it is quite possible, and repeatable.
I shot 3 consecutive groups with my 40X at 200M that were sub-moa, and 2 of those were under ½ moa.
Here's proof..... Squares are ½" on 1st and 3rd group, 1" on center group.

Regards, Eagleye.
Click to expand...

How far up the ammo food chain did you have to go and were these from a "magical" batch of ammo or typical of this level of ammo?

I've found bottom end match ammo to have a lot of batch to batch variation but I don't have enough experience with mid-level and higher ammo to know how much lot number factors into the ammo performance.
 
Eagleye said:
I have seen my share of nay-sayers, but this thread seems to be extra-full of them.
I have at least two, possibly three 22 rimfire rifles that will shoot sub moa at 200 meters with the right ammo. [5 shots]
It is true, the wind plays games, but on a calm early AM, it is quite possible, and repeatable.
I shot 3 consecutive groups with my 40X at 200M that were sub-moa, and 2 of those were under ½ moa.

Regards, Eagleye.
Click to expand...


Wow... What brand of ammo were you using to achieve that?
 
Teac said:
I believe it is linear.
Click to expand...

from my limited experience and common-sense thinking:

yeah, MOA would be linear (math, lasers, etc), but accuracy wouldn't be - the drop (gravity) and drift (wind) would be exponential with distance.

so i'm GUESSING that to hit 1MOA at 200yd (which is a 2" group), i'd need to be able to do 1/2MOA (0.5") at 100yd instead of 1MOA (1") at 100yd. i'm presuming i need sub-MOA accuracy at 100yd to get MOA accuracy at 200yd.
 
He said MOA is linear. I believe what he was getting at with his next comment is the simple fact that rifle accuracy is not linear, only the angular measurement MOA is. If youre printing 1" groups at 100 yds you will definitely not be printing 10" groups at 1000 yds. And rarely will that same rifle be able to achieve 2" at 200 yds.

Teac said:
sorry if it offends you but MOA is linear. I am aware that shooting at longer distances becomes more difficult. That doesnt change the fact that moa is independent of distance and most people saying things like "I shoot 2 moa at 200m" really mean that their bullets ended up in a 2" circle which is a big difference. It leads to the problem that you have no clue what people mean and how they are shooting
Click to expand...
 
supernova said:
He said MOA is linear. I believe what he was getting at with his next comment is the simple fact that rifle accuracy is not linear, only the angular measurement MOA is. If youre printing 1" groups at 100 yds you will definitely not be printing 10" groups at 1000 yds. And rarely will that same rifle be able to achieve 2" at 200 yds.
Click to expand...

yes this. external factors probably cause accuracy expressed in moa to go down at longer distances
 
Teac said:
sorry if it offends you but MOA is linear. I am aware that shooting at longer distances becomes more difficult. That doesnt change the fact that moa is independent of distance and most people saying things like "I shoot 2 moa at 200m" really mean that their bullets ended up in a 2" circle which is a big difference. It leads to the problem that you have no clue what people mean and how they are shooting
Click to expand...

Your cognitive skills are sub-par... I didn't say that "MOA" is not linear... I said that a given gun's accuracy potential as distance increases is not linear. A gun that shoots MOA at 100 may be 2 MOA at 200 and 3 MOA at 300 (example only)... because accuracy erodes as the distance increases due to the effects of uncontrollable factors, such as wind and human error... of course MOA is linear... accuracy is not.
 
hoytcanon said:
Your cognitive skills are sub-par... I didn't say that "MOA" is not linear... I said that a given gun's accuracy potential as distance increases is not linear. A gun that shoots MOA at 100 may be 2 MOA at 200 and 3 MOA at 300 (example only)... because accuracy erodes as the distance increases due to the effects of uncontrollable factors, such as wind and human error... of course MOA is linear... accuracy is not.
Click to expand...

I think my math skills are better developed than my cognitive skills ...
 
Op, I'm thinking that any rimfire is not going to be accurate on a regular basis @ 200 yards. Wind will blow that little bullet around like crazy on all but the most calm of days.

That being said I regularly shoot my .22lr at 150-200 yards and it's a lot of fun and has helped me read the wind. I'm still no good at 200 but it's still fun. Way more fun then hitting the target every time with my centerfire rifles.
 
I am with Eagleye, it might not be the norm for most people, but I have seen many sub 1" groups at 200 yards. If its windy at all though, unless you are some sort of doping god, all bets are off.
 
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