IDPA/CDPA Whinning and #####ing

bluesclues said:
I have read the past 6 pages with great interest. I took the CDP course in Oshawa, as it was the closest club to me with a "_DPA" and this sport has really appealled to me. As I understood it, both IDPA and CDP are both Canadian IDPA's. I will explain. IDPA being shot in Canada is not the "real" IDPA any more than CDP is because both of these sports have to bend the official IDPA rule book to fit Canadian firearms laws.

I digress. I shoot CDP because of the proximity of clubs in my area. Although since it's the same rules, I may just buy a IDPA membership one day just to compete in the states.

To me, this is a shame that both sports couldn't co-operate to get more shooters involved. Since this is not the case. I do encourage everyone to give CDP or IDPA a chance (which ever is in your neck of the woods). You will have fun.
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Actually you are wrong.

IDPA shot in Canada is the real deal. As with any IDPA club in the world, rules MAY be changed to comply with that countries laws. ie In Canada we can compete with a 5 and 6" revolver because most people are not 12(6) compliant. In Italy you cannot use a 9mmPara. Plus there are others that I don't know about.
 
stormbringer said:
Franklly this is just nuts!

Same rules.........

Two groups

That makes it all about egos.........



Mind you it reallyl would not be that bad if it were like Pops described but the constant slagging of this and that group makes both (all) look stupid.
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OK Storm........What do you think would be said if say the CSSA (or another group ) was putting on "holster courses" for an "IPSC like" group of shooters...using the IPSC official rule book and yet was in no way affilliated with IPSC at all ?
 
bclinehand said:
What do you think would be said if say the CSSA (or another group ) was putting on "holster courses" for an "IPSC like" group of shooters...using the IPSC official rule book and yet was in no way affilliated with IPSC at all ?
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I'd say "have at 'er". Such a course would not let a person shoot "real" IPSC, but as long as it didn't claim any differently, who cares?

Come to an ODPL match. We accept CDP, IDPA, PPC, IPSC, and a couple of other 'certifications'. You'll have safe fun - which is supposed to be the point.

More "serious" competitors who want to have a US-portable certification clearly have to go with "real" IDPA. The rest of us don't give a hoot, as our goals are to enjoy an action sport that was designed from the go to have little overhead.
 
bclinehand said:
OK Storm........What do you think would be said if say the CSSA (or another group ) was putting on "holster courses" for an "IPSC like" group of shooters...using the IPSC official rule book and yet was in no way affilliated with IPSC at all ?
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Well..........frankly I wish that all shooting sports were under a single umbrella organization. Again the economy of scale would be beneficial. However I do not see this happening at any point in time in the near future.

Imagine a group with a publication that has stories on Trap, sporting clays, IPSC, *DPA, Bullseye etc! Can you say WOW!!

Now if the individuals were starting a group due to their own egos..........then I would be against them.

This really appears to be a chicken and egg situation...

Who came first?

Who has the largest network?

If the rules are the same then it makes sense that there only be one group.
 
acrashb said:
I'd say "have at 'er". Such a course would not let a person shoot "real" IPSC, but as long as it didn't claim any differently, who cares?

Come to an ODPL match. We accept CDP, IDPA, PPC, IPSC, and a couple of other 'certifications'. You'll have safe fun - which is supposed to be the point.

More "serious" competitors who want to have a US-portable certification clearly have to go with "real" IDPA. The rest of us don't give a hoot, as our goals are to enjoy an action sport that was designed from the go to have little overhead.
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Thanks for the invite I would love to come that way one day ( would have to tell the wife it was for the scenerey or something though :p ) I think the problems start when the splinter group promotes itself as being the "real thing" Kinda like the "New Coke? original Coke sort of thing)I"m not trying to imply that CDP is a splinter group of IDPA Canada. but if they are using the IDPA rule book then IDPA must have been around first (maybe not in Canada though). The problem began as I see it when members of CDP started to promote themselves as being affilliated with IDPA when in fact they were not.

I'm not sure how many members CDP has But for anyone to say that IDPA has no structure the almost 12,000 members prove that statement wrong.

I'm with you on the I " don't give a hoot" statement I have no intention for now to shoot in the US but I will continue to be an IDPA member for the simple reason that I love action shooting and for personal reasons will never join IPSC here in Terrace. (not this is not slamming IPSC )

You are also more than welcome to shoot here in Terrace and If you find yourself coming out this way at all let me Know and we can arrange for a invitation to be sent out (for your ATT)
 
Actually you are wrong.

IDPA shot in Canada is the real deal.
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Kind of sounds like egos to me.

I gave up on brand name items for the sake of having the brand name a long time ago. If I buy Coca Cola it's because it's on sale for the same price as the house brand (that doesn't taste bad). It might be age but I wonder if any of you that are serious about all this have any gray hair yet.

My interest is in shooting. I try to do my best and I hope to do better than some and don't expect to do better than most. I don't ever plan on going to any National or International finals. I couldn't care less. I guess it's different for those with egos. ;)
 
In reference to all of this in my original reply to this post it was only to correct the wrong impression of CDP and IDPA being affiliated. I shoot both and IPSC now as well, and enjoy all of them. The main reason for IDPA membership is to be able to shoot it internationally. If you have no desire to do that then by all means shoot CDP or other _DPA events. I still plan on doing that as well. However I also like the idea of being able to drive to the states and shoot in competition there or any where else in the world that the army happens to send me. I also belong to CSSA and NFA and even OFAH.

My main reason for pointing out the distinction between the two is so that if someone is interested in shooting an DPA style sport any where other than in Canada then the have to join the original IDPA.
 
It all boils down to credibility, for instance who are the board members for CDPA? Where do the match fees go and how are they used? I was a member of both, but the lack of organization in CDP plus the fact there is no transparency ref. the above question, I decided to stop supporting CDPA and CSSA.
If some clarification was given maybe it would be worth joining. At the time I joined all funds from training fees & match fees were addressed to 1 person, not the organization as a whole,I didn't get a warm and fuzzy over that.
 
Rudy H said:
Kind of sounds like egos to me.

I gave up on brand name items for the sake of having the brand name a long time ago. If I buy Coca Cola it's because it's on sale for the same price as the house brand (that doesn't taste bad). It might be age but I wonder if any of you that are serious about all this have any gray hair yet.

My interest is in shooting. I try to do my best and I hope to do better than some and don't expect to do better than most. I don't ever plan on going to any National or International finals. I couldn't care less. I guess it's different for those with egos. ;)
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Not ego, just a statement of fact!
 
Reaper said:
I decided to stop supporting CDPA and CSSA.
.
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That would be the same CSSA that is paying for the lawyers to win back your right to shoot your 12.5s right????


Nice...........
:rolleyes:


RePete said:
Not ego, just a statement of fact!
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The facts indicate that this is all about egos it would appear.
 
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RePete said:
IDPA shot in Canada is the real deal.
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RePete said:
Not ego, just a statement of fact!
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And your point then? By saying that your IDPA is the real deal you imply shooting CDP is something less. Since CDP is a copy of IDPA (same targets same rules) then how is IDPA, on a practical level, any better by being the real deal?

Since I only have one option locally (there is no IDPA in the Winnipeg area) therefor I shoot CDP. If I had both to choose from then I would pick what would cost me less to shoot or what would give me the best value. Sending money down south for the sake of having the real deal does not do it for me. I would rather buy the knock-off and keep the money here and get some more value locally.
 
Rudy H said:
And your point then? By saying that your IDPA is the real deal you imply shooting CDP is something less. Since CDP is a copy of IDPA (same targets same rules) then how is IDPA, on a practical level, any better by being the real deal?

Since I only have one option locally (there is no IDPA in the Winnipeg area) therefor I shoot CDP. If I had both to choose from then I would pick what would cost me less to shoot or what would give me the best value. Sending money down south for the sake of having the real deal does not do it for me. I would rather buy the knock-off and keep the money here and get some more value locally.
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Well put!
 
RePete

You are right in that IDPA does talk to proficiency with a handgun and we certainly will offer assistance in this area. But IDPA does not have a formal holster course like Black Badge here in Canada with IPSC or apparently CDP. CDP is offering a holster course, and I assume their interpretation of IDPA rules. Whether they go into COF designs and MAtch Directing will have to be commented on by someone who has taken the course.

The IDPA Safety Officer Course is not a holster course but rather a course for those interested in becoming certified IDPA Safety Officers as you know. It is also offered free to IDPA members with travel expenses of the instructor covered either by the class or by the Shooting Club.

Someone mentioned the fact funds go south of the border. Considering IDPA, aside from providing the formal structure for our sport produces the rule books, the powerpoint presentations used in our Safety Officer Classes, Instructor facilitating material, maintains membership data, qualifier records, produces a Journal and organizes national shoots supporting the organization with our $50.US fee seems to be what one would expect to do. For the services IDPA provides me and the avenues and options available to me by being a member the $50.00 gives me good value.

Lastly, the IDPA Qualifier differs from IPSC Qualifiers that most on this forum would be familiar with in that it is a fixed course of fire consisting of 90 rounds. The Qualifier is run by the local IDPA clubs. By comparing your score to established benchmarks you are classified in the division you shoot. Dragoon, who posts here regularly is the first Canadian I believe to have qualified "Marksman" in all five IDPA divisions. Others will follow.

Take Care

Bob
 
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In CDP we do infact teach a holster course and yes we do follow the basics of IDPA, but also employ club rules which are outlined by the CFO to be mandatory for every club. Not sure what you mean by Match Directing, but we run organized matches open to all CDP shooters as well as IPSC and at my club IDPA as well, along with the other CFO approved combat leagues in the province, if you are holster approved, come on out and shoot. Now with that being said, I would say that 90% of the PPC and IPSC shooters who come out to shoot at my club all insisted on taking the CDP course, none had any issue with the fee or the course itself.

The CDP instructor course in not a holster course either, but we do focus on teaching shooters how to use a holster. We pay for it, I paid $50.00, that money was remitted to the CSSA who over sees CDP in the Province and I am not sure if the Instructor/trainer was reimbursed, but I really do not care either.

As for the money you pay for CDP course, it goes to CSSA the loudest word in the country fighting for your gun rights. The moeny one pays at a match goes back to the club and for supplies.

Personally, I do not like the qualifier and do not use it. We are all the same people doing the same thing, having fun, that is the most important thing. This is just my opinion, but I think that with a lot of newer shooters, the clissifier can make them think they are not as good. Maybe they are not, but do not tell them that, that is a great way to turn a shooter away from the sport. We are all on a level playing field and again the most important thing is enjoyment.

Canuck44,

In all honestly, what is your issue with CDP, clearly there is something you do not like about it, what is it?
 
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Steve David

What I find distasteful about CDP was the effort to portray it to be IDPA in Canada when it isn't and to in effect plagiarize IDPA's rule book and claim it is is ok. I can understand individuals doing that but I can't say it says much for CSSA.

Seems like this holster training is very much a Canadian thing. Not at all sure what you get for $150. but if there are folks out there who feel it has value go for it.

'This is just my opinion, but I think that with a lot of newer shooters, the clissifier can make them think they are not as good. Maybe they are not, but do not tell them that, that is a great way to turn a shooter away from the sport."

That is the most convoluted logic I have read in a long time. First nobody is forced to shoot a qualifier and secondly if you enjoy the sport, as a sport, then what is the issue to see how you measure up against a standard. For me all it is is a way I can measure if I am improving my shooting skills as measured against a fixed course of fire.


Take Care

Bob
 
FAQ v 1.0

Canuck44 said:
What I find distasteful about CDP was the effort to portray it to be IDPA in Canada when it isn't
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CDP *was* to be IDPA in Canada until individuals got between CSSA and IDPA Inc. If this hadn't happened then there would be no confusion, oh well, too late for that!

Canuck44 said:
Seems like this holster training is very much a Canadian thing. Not at all sure what you get for $150. but if there are folks out there who feel it has value go for it.
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Out on the western frontier I know you guys play rough, but in many places, 'holster certification' is a requirement to shoot action games. Like it or not we have to prove that we are safe, and as a match director I'm thankful of having some accountability and training standards in place.

The free IDPA training sounds great, but in the crazy chance that lawyers get involved (after an accident) I think that the CSSA course would stand up better.

This has actually been a great thread and it's cleared up alot for me about who and what 'REAL IDPA' is.

Maybe an FAQ would help??

CDP vs IDPA FAQ v1.0

CDP offers
- Competitors (holster safety) certificate.
- Safety Officer certificate.
- Membership in a Canadian non-profit that advocates for gun owners.
- Local leagues.
- Developing organization.

IDPA offers
- free* training.
- free* safety officers course.
- Membership in an International organization overseen by an American for profit corporation.
- Local leagues.
- Opportunity to be classified and compete in the US.

*(pay instructors expenses)

Now this still dosen't explain why IDPA guys jump all over every CDP thread, but it sounds more like the Norinco vs. Real steel threads with every passing day. (yes, thats a joke..)
 
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raks said:
CDP *was* to be IDPA in Canada until individuals got between CSSA and IDPA Inc. If this hadn't happened then there would be no confusion, oh well, too late for that!


Out on the western frontier I know you guys play rough, but in many places, 'holster certification' is a requirement to shoot action games. Like it or not we have to prove that we are safe, and as a match director I'm thankful of having some accountability and training standards in place.

The free IDPA training sounds great, but in the crazy chance that lawyers get involved (after an accident) I think that the CSSA course would stand up better.

This has actually been a great thread and it's cleared up alot for me about who and what 'REAL IDPA' is.

Maybe an FAQ would help??

CDP vs IDPA FAQ v1.0

CDP offers
- Competitors (holster safety) certificate.
- Safety Officer certificate.
- Membership in a Canadian non-profit that advocates for gun owners.
- Local leagues.
- Developing organization.

IDPA offers
- free* training.
- free* safety officers course.
- Membership in an International organization overseen by an American for profit corporation.
- Local leagues.
- Opportunity to be classified and compete in the US.

*(pay instructors expenses)

Now this still dosen't explain why IDPA guys jump all over every CDP thread, but it sounds more like the Norinco vs. Real steel threads with every passing day. (yes, thats a joke..)
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actually although based in USA the class you get carries to all regions that participates in IDPA... just spliting hairs but wanted to clear that up... not to add anymore CDP vs. IDPA because in the end if the lead is flying down range and ur having fun who really cares
 
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