IDPA/CDPA Whinning and #####ing

Canuck44 said:
What I find distasteful about CDP was the effort to portray it to be IDPA in Canada when it isn't and to in effect plagiarize IDPA's rule book and claim it is is ok. I can understand individuals doing that but I can't say it says much for CSSA.

Seems like this holster training is very much a Canadian thing. Not at all sure what you get for $150. but if there are folks out there who feel it has value go for it.

'This is just my opinion, but I think that with a lot of newer shooters, the clissifier can make them think they are not as good. Maybe they are not, but do not tell them that, that is a great way to turn a shooter away from the sport."

That is the most convoluted logic I have read in a long time. First nobody is forced to shoot a qualifier and secondly if you enjoy the sport, as a sport, then what is the issue to see how you measure up against a standard. For me all it is is a way I can measure if I am improving my shooting skills as measured against a fixed course of fire.


Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...

Well when CDP was first proposed, it was infact in talks with IDPA, that never panned out so it was created as a separte league. On plagiarizing the IDPA rule book, anyone can do that, it is on the website available for the world to see, so why not use it as a guide line?

On the fee, which seems to be the biggest issue with a few people, the normal cost is not $150.00 it is $50 but it costs money to fly someone from Ontario to Alberta, this Instructor is taking time away from his work to go and teach a course, should he pay for the ticket himself? Would an IDPA instructor coming up from the US to teach here pay for the flight out of thier own pocket, I think not.

On the classifier issue, you are free to think what you want, but after talking with all the students that I have taught, this is what was very clear, so we left that part out, not really a big deal in my opinion or the 100 or so shooters that I have taught at my club alone, but if you have issue, that is your choice.

You know what, we are having fun, no one is complaining and that is it. No crap or BS or you are gone, the main priority to to have fun.
 
If the rulebook is to be quoted, here's IDPA stands on the issue of theft of the IDPA Brand:


Page 56 of the IDPA Rulebook, Section E on Club Information
NOTE:
Some foreign countries have laws that prohibit concealed
carry and self-defense; therefore, those interested in shooting or
organizing IDPA competitions in these countries face unique
problems. Due to this unfortunate political situation, IDPA
authorizes the clubs in these countries to modify the name of the
organization, logo and/or rules to meet local legal requirements.
However, NO Championship Matches will be “sanctioned” in any
country where the competition cannot be run 100% under IDPA
rules.​
Click to expand...

 
So then the use of the IDPA manual by the CDP (if in fact true) would be have in fact been okay all along?
 
Steve David said:
Well when CDP was first proposed, it was infact in talks with IDPA, that never panned out so it was created as a separte league. On plagiarizing the IDPA rule book, anyone can do that, it is on the website available for the world to see, so why not use it as a guide line?
Click to expand...

Because the rulebook is used almost verbatim, and I am guessing the idea of intellectual theft is/was a concern for IDPA HQ and may have been a large issue at those talks.
CDP uses IDPA rulebook and targets. Any idea why they (CDP organizers) even went CDP instead of starting IDPA in Canada? Who provides CDP targets? Do they use IDPA ones or is there a CDP version?

Just curious. As a newby to the sport, I plain don't get why CDP exists at all. Country exceptions have been in the IDPA rules for years. Does anyone know?
I can see the need for informal shoots that are not "officially sanctioned" but then why even organize a "league"?

All shooting is good and I plan on shooting IDPA and CDP as the options for both exist around me.

Hopefully something gets worked out and 1 entity results (like IPSC) as it's really confusing for new shooters and is creating a large amount of conflict in clubs that are in areas with both.

Edit:
So then the use of the IDPA manual by the CDP (if in fact true) would be have in fact been okay all along?
Click to expand...

That's not how I read it. I get that you can make changes required by country laws and still be IDPA. Nowhere do I read it's OK to use the manual and targets to create your own "league" and profit from it.
 
Last edited:
PrairieMedic said:
If the rulebook is to be quoted, here's IDPA stands on the issue of theft of the IDPA Brand:
Click to expand...

Actually I did not know you were a Representative of the IDPA and are a part of their legal section :p

Your quote from the rule book is not the IDPA stand on theft, there is no mention of theft of the IDPA IP in the rule book. But if you wish to contact the HQ for clarification you can, or if you want, I can?
 
kolyarh said:
So then the use of the IDPA manual by the CDP (if in fact true) would be have in fact been okay all along?
Click to expand...

quite the contrary:

Page 56 of the IDPA Rulebook, Section E on Club Information
NOTE:
Some foreign countries have laws that prohibit concealed
carry and self-defense; therefore, those interested in shooting or
organizing IDPA competitions in these countries face unique
problems. Due to this unfortunate political situation, IDPA
authorizes the clubs in these countries to modify the name of the
organization, logo and/or rules to meet local legal requirements.
However, NO Championship Matches will be “sanctioned” in any
country where the competition cannot be run 100% under IDPA
rules.
Click to expand...

The rule book is published for official IDPA and official IDPA affiliated clubs/organizations. The CDPA/CDP is not an official or affiliated organization to the IDPA. The rules within it only govern the IDPA and official affiliated clubs.

Any non authorized entity which uses it, it just that...using it. the CDPA/CDP cannot go the IDPA for rule clarification, rule change or ruling judgment/arbitration.

If anyone wishes to contact the IDPA for official clarification please by all means do so before posting erroneous or wrong information.
 
Rudy H said:
Since I only have one option locally (there is no IDPA in the Winnipeg area) therefor I shoot CDP. If I had both to choose from then I would pick what would cost me less to shoot or what would give me the best value. Sending money down south for the sake of having the real deal does not do it for me. I would rather buy the knock-off and keep the money here and get some more value locally.
Click to expand...

Then start up IDPA, then you would have the choice. That's what we did.
 
Lol, I'm not a rep Pops, that is a position statement from them. I'm sure we all read it the same way when studying the rulebook. My rulebook is off the IDPA website, free to download for anyone who wishes. At: http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

I welcome the day when we can all be under one flag, but until then any DPA trained individual can compete in our provincial league. This includes IDPA/IPSC/CDP. You have my personal standing invitation.

This has probably been one of the best discussion threads on CGN. Kudo's to the mods, and participants.
 
raks said:
CDP *was* to be IDPA in Canada until individuals got between CSSA and IDPA Inc. If this hadn't happened then there would be no confusion, oh well, too late for that!


Out on the western frontier I know you guys play rough, but in many places, 'holster certification' is a requirement to shoot action games. Like it or not we have to prove that we are safe, and as a match director I'm thankful of having some accountability and training standards in place.

The free IDPA training sounds great, but in the crazy chance that lawyers get involved (after an accident) I think that the CSSA course would stand up better.

This has actually been a great thread and it's cleared up alot for me about who and what 'REAL IDPA' is.

Maybe an FAQ would help??

CDP vs IDPA FAQ v1.0

CDP offers
- Competitors (holster safety) certificate.
- Safety Officer certificate.
- Membership in a Canadian non-profit that advocates for gun owners.
- Local leagues.
- Developing organization.

IDPA offers
- free* training.
- free* safety officers course.
- Membership in an International organization overseen by an American for profit corporation.
- Local leagues.
- Opportunity to be classified and compete in the US.

*(pay instructors expenses)

Now this still dosen't explain why IDPA guys jump all over every CDP thread, but it sounds more like the Norinco vs. Real steel threads with every passing day. (yes, thats a joke..)
Click to expand...

So what you are saying that any course that is free isn't as good as a course that you pay for! Correct?

BOLLOCKS!

You have got a clue.
 
I believe that he is saying that the IDPA version of *DPA has free courses and that CSSA being a rather large group that oversees the ATT courses in Ontario (cursed as it is) has a proven track record of training handgun shooters. This may or may not add legitimacy.
 
Actually Storm, we called the Ontario CFO to ascertain what requirements are and/or not required to shoot action Shooting Sports in Canada/Ontario...

from the Ontario CFO... there is no requirement to belong to any organization such as the CSSA, NFA, NRA, or any other governing body to shoot any action shooting sport ie: IDPA, CDPA, CDP, ODP, IPSC, PPC, etc etc

Your ATT is covered by a/your club membership;
Your Insurance is covered by your local shooting club insurance coverage or first person insurance;
If the organization is a sanctioned shooting sport reconized by the CFO.

So no requirement for these other memberships other than supporting their cause.
 
This thread is a mess.
I'd like to thank all the folks in the Calgary area that have made this in-fighting what it is and leaving such a negative impression of each discipline that more than a few shooters can't be bothered to come out and support these dynamic sports, me included.:puke:
Good Job!:kickInTheNuts:
 
RePete said:
So what you are saying that any course that is free isn't as good as a course that you pay for! Correct?

BOLLOCKS!

You have got a clue.
Click to expand...
Yikes, I was just trying to list things, you have read too much into it. Many have stated that IDPA training is free, but others have demonstrated that it isn't really free. I wasn't trying to imply anything. I haven't made any negative comments about IDPA all thread!! - can't we all just get along?? :dancingbanana:

I really think an FAQ would be a good idea, feel free to add or edit what was started.

beltfed: you're missing out, I was 'afraid' of IPSC because of the politics, but in the end it all comes down to hanging with a bunch of like minded people having just about the most fun possible.
 
Last edited:
stormbringer said:
I believe that he is saying that the IDPA version of *DPA has free courses and that CSSA being a rather large group that oversees the ATT courses in Ontario (cursed as it is) has a proven track record of training handgun shooters. This may or may not add legitimacy.
Click to expand...


ATT course??? I don't think I took one of those... oh wait is this forum openly accessible???... Really??? ATT course??
 
Yes.............sadly.

In Ontario you need to take a "club level handgun safety course" before you will get an ATT.

It is not our idea but one foisted on us by the CFO.

Mind you the course is superior (IMHO) to the RCFSC course and should really replace it. In the handgun course you actualy have to shoot a gun!
 
Popurhedoff said:
Actually Storm, we called the Ontario CFO to ascertain what requirements are and/or not required to shoot action Shooting Sports in Canada/Ontario...

.
Click to expand...

I never said that there was.

My statement was just conjecture as to what would carry more weight in court and I stand by them.
 
For crying out loud, this is way out of control, what the hell are we doing here. Is this not supposed to be fun. If you do not want to pay for and take the CDP course then don't. So far I have not had one person complain about doing this course or paying for it and I can assue you all who are clearly against CDP, but far to cowardly to actually come out and say it, that we all have a a realy fun time. If you come to my club to shoot CDP, I do not care if you are IPSC, IDPA or any other CFO approved combat holster type of shooting,you are welcome and you will have fun and there will be no BS. If there is BS, then I will personally show you the door. FUN FUN FUN! Does it need to be said again, why all this in fighting by the CDP haters? So CDP used the IDPA book as a guide line, oh boo hoo, get over it and have some fun damb it, this bickering back and forth is not fun.
 
Last edited:
I like PC's not Mac, Pepsi not Coke, and Dodge not Chevy. I also like DP shooting (not displaced persons), (defensive pistol). Until such time as a resolution can be made in the higher ranks, we the shooters will be down here putting rounds downrange. There's no sense expecting a clear cut answer right away, or holding off shooting for the sake of clarity. The fact is that people really don't give a crap. It's stuff like this that drives people away. It really puts a damper on my enthusiasm anyway.

I would love to offer IDPA courses here, however the CDP guys beat them to the punch by over a year. It's our hope to integrate IDPA into the MB course, and give the shooters an option to join what they want. If at some time one of the parent orgs doesn't exist, our students are covered. At the very least they can shoot at any match we or our peer clubs put on. Which is why we started this in the first place. To put more rounds downrange, and provide the safest shooters on the line.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom