Idpa pcc?
- Thread starter Jamie
- Start date
Time for Section 1 of the RB to be amended to reflect where the sport is, not where it was once thought to be.
IDPA like other sports be it shooting or sky diving is in the entertainment business competing in a finite market. It either reflects what people want or nobody will play it. HQ in their wisdom have chosen to move into PCC shooting and Optics on an optional basis. If time shows both to be popular I am sure they will be incorporated into the sport. If they don't no harm done. IDPA is a private company and the owners are free to control IDPA's destiny.
One thing is clear HQ does not make much of an effort to control what the individual clubs do. From that, most clubs do what they want to do at the local level. Works until something goes wrong. It would be difficult for a MD to hide behind the rules of the sport if he/she were running matches outside the rules of the sport. Seems to me that might be an incentive to play within the rules of the sport. Just saying.
Take Care
Bob
IDPA like other sports be it shooting or sky diving is in the entertainment business competing in a finite market. It either reflects what people want or nobody will play it. HQ in their wisdom have chosen to move into PCC shooting and Optics on an optional basis. If time shows both to be popular I am sure they will be incorporated into the sport. If they don't no harm done. IDPA is a private company and the owners are free to control IDPA's destiny.
One thing is clear HQ does not make much of an effort to control what the individual clubs do. From that, most clubs do what they want to do at the local level. Works until something goes wrong. It would be difficult for a MD to hide behind the rules of the sport if he/she were running matches outside the rules of the sport. Seems to me that might be an incentive to play within the rules of the sport. Just saying.
Take Care
Bob
Most often you can't really have it both ways (see the following comment, though, for how you can). Either IDPA is a shooting sport based on concealed carry self-defence, or alternatively, it is both that and something else entirely. Trying to have a foot in both worlds is problematic, but if you're determined to do it, then do it properly. Most of the existing rules (and the wealth of scenarios/stages built upon them) are incompatible with PCC without modification.
That's the kicker.
What could go wrong? Either you're running a match safely - with any kind of firearm designed as suitable for the stage - or you are not.
I don't agree that PCC offends the defensive shooting aspect of the sport. Quite the contrary, defending yourself with a pistol carbine makes perfect sense in the right setting. Having a scenario where you describe the shooter as standing watching a Santa Clause parade is probably not a realistic scenario for a PCC. Setting the scenario in a home situation, or out on a farm being attacked by wolves, zombies or whatever is somewhat more realistic. All pretend anyway. You have been using long guns in your stages so I assume you have come to grips with what some consider a contradiction.
One can also claim shotguns work as well. I do agree they do BUT at short distances banging away with a shotgun is great if the test is to shoot quickly but steel is about the only target you can employ. The PCC to me is just more fun.
One rule in life I have found to be true and that is what ever can go wrong will go wrong. Folks are injured virtually every year in handgun sports. IPSC, UPSA has had them so has IDPA. You can run a safe match and still have folks injured. When folks get injured lawyers and the law often decide who was or wasn't at fault. On what basis would you claim your stage was safe if the rules of the sport you were playing did not support the type of firearm you mandated to be used in your safe stage? Do what you are comfortable with, just don't assume anything. You don't want to find out the answer to the question you asked was not the one you expected that is all I am saying.
Take Care
Bob
One can also claim shotguns work as well. I do agree they do BUT at short distances banging away with a shotgun is great if the test is to shoot quickly but steel is about the only target you can employ. The PCC to me is just more fun.
One rule in life I have found to be true and that is what ever can go wrong will go wrong. Folks are injured virtually every year in handgun sports. IPSC, UPSA has had them so has IDPA. You can run a safe match and still have folks injured. When folks get injured lawyers and the law often decide who was or wasn't at fault. On what basis would you claim your stage was safe if the rules of the sport you were playing did not support the type of firearm you mandated to be used in your safe stage? Do what you are comfortable with, just don't assume anything. You don't want to find out the answer to the question you asked was not the one you expected that is all I am saying.
Take Care
Bob
Not really, rifle are not for concealed defensive use, they are for the offense. You can't conceal a PCC with a holster plus you wouldn't carry a PCC concealed. Only in the movies.
RePete has already addressed this. Its the "concealed carry" self-defence principle set out in the rules that is offended by PCC. When we do incorporate long guns into the mix, the scenario is designed to accommodate it and we don't use concealment garments there, obviously.
Interesting, because our members really enjoy the shotgun work, on both steel and frangible targets.
If and when an accident were to happen, the rules of the "game" wouldn't be the issue. The rules of firearm safety absolutely would continue to be. And nothing has changed in that respect. I am completely comfortable in this position.
Last match I shot had 30℅ pcc shooters.
Exactly and you are not required to do in PCC either. As I said earlier what needs to be done is to clean up the motherhood comments in 1.2. If it works for you in your stages up until now when there was a rule against the use of any long guns other than for props why would it bother you now when there isn't. I just am confused on your stance that is all.
PCC IMHO is going to be more popular than CCP Division by a lot. In time Optics will dominate the sport as well, something IDPA is going to have to decide on sooner than five years. I personally would throw Optics into ESP and effectively make that division an Optic place to play while at the same time open up most of the mods allowed in ESP to SSP. The mods that are allowed have so little to do with results in matches keeping them off the SSP table is hard to justify. Check the match scores between SSP and ESP. Not enough difference to worry about.
Take Care
Bob
There is nothing to be confused about. Let me explain.
IDPA is based on concealed carry self-defence. This is well-established. That said, not every scenario or stage involves concealment, as you know. Some are pickup, already staged, taken from the box, etc.
However, if the scenario/stage calls for drawing a holstered handgun from concealment, what is the guy competing in PCC division supposed to do? Start from the low ready? How does that fit into the scenario/stage when everyone else is performing in accordance with the description? What if the scenario/stage calls for strong/dominant or weak/support hand shooting?
These are the simple kinds of conflicts that PCC raises, but aren't addressed by the rules.
When we incorporate a long gun into a scenario/stage at a local match, everyone is using a long gun for that stage or portion of the stage. No such conflicts arise.
Why does it matter. PCC shooters only compete among themselves just like shooters only compete in their divisions.
Yes, PCC would start from the low ready position. No issues there - see above comment.
Take Care
Bob
ps I do agree though the rule 1.2 should be changed to reflect the way the sport is played today. I suspect like a lot of other issues with the rule book that are far more important, it just was overlooked. Put a dozen people in a echo chamber and some things are bound to get missed.
It doesn't matter competitively. But it does matter functionally. Without an adequate set of rules or guidance as to how to proceed, clubs are left to themselves to figure out how best to proceed. Probably not all along the same path.
I still don't how a PCC shooter performs strong/dominant or weak/support hand shooting. Do they get a PE or a pass? Etc. The pitfalls are obvious.
Strong shoulder weak shoulder. That's how. You must use strong side everything then weak side everything.
PCC is not a full Division. As a MD you can decide whether or not you allow it in your IDPA matches. I agree there should have been more guidance from HQ but there isn't. So yo either decide on your own, play it, or not and move on. This is the same as BUG and Optic Divisions.
I have set out the conditions in which likely will shoot PCC at our club on the IDPA Canada website. Take a look. If it meets your needs feel free to use them or not.
Take Care
Bob
I have set out the conditions in which likely will shoot PCC at our club on the IDPA Canada website. Take a look. If it meets your needs feel free to use them or not.
Take Care
Bob
In Canada PCC is a more likely real ish ( used lightly) then Conceled carry.
PCC if given a chance will do well. Sell more guns and bring in more sponsors.
It will grow the sport
All Rockcutshooting club 3 gun matches this year will have a PCC division.
You can be a club to embrace change and grow! or a stick in the mud club
PCC if given a chance will do well. Sell more guns and bring in more sponsors.
It will grow the sport
All Rockcutshooting club 3 gun matches this year will have a PCC division.
You can be a club to embrace change and grow! or a stick in the mud club
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It was fun to watch.
It doesn't appear that your scores got posted to Practiscore tho'. It would have been interesting to see how they match up with the pistol shooters.
One good thing from this is that it will give some a reason to buy a new gun. lol
It doesn't appear that your scores got posted to Practiscore tho'. It would have been interesting to see how they match up with the pistol shooters.
One good thing from this is that it will give some a reason to buy a new gun. lol
