If a round ignites while in storage, will it cause the bullet to penetrate cabinet?

As I posted in a previous thread, if the ammo is tightly packed in a steel ammo can, or even in a loaded metal magazine, there is a possibility of the ammunition exploding fairly violently, and resulting in the possibility of it penetrating a metal ammo can, and travel up to a block away.
 
critter928 said:
As I posted in a previous thread, if the ammo is tightly packed in a steel ammo can, or even in a loaded metal magazine, there is a possibility of the ammunition exploding fairly violently, and resulting in the possibility of it penetrating a metal ammo can, and travel up to a block away.
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Not likely.

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I have burned hundreds of thousands of rounds of all kinds of ammo, from 22 to 375H&H. Just shoveled it into a 55 gallon steel drum with a fire in it. Ammo cooks off like popcorn. Bullet stays in neck, case splits open.

I worked at CIL ammo plant. Ammo got made with wrong powder, wrong bullet, wrong anneal, too much powder, not enough powder, etc. It got burned.
 
Cooking off rounds in a steel magazine wont cause much of an explosion. I believe Box'o'truth did an article on that one. There are gaps and the opening at the top that will allow the gases to vent quite quickly without building up enough to explode.
Sealed, steel ammo cans (NATO style) are a different matter.
 
Ganderite said:
I have burned hundreds of thousands of rounds of all kinds of ammo, from 22 to 375H&H. Just shoveled it into a 55 gallon steel drum with a fire in it. Ammo cooks off like popcorn. Bullet stays in neck, case splits open.

I worked at CIL ammo plant. Ammo got made with wrong powder, wrong bullet, wrong anneal, too much powder, not enough powder, etc. It got burned.
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The military disposes of ammunition in a furnace with the same effect.

It is not however a sturdy sealed container like a tightly packed ammunition can or loaded steel magazine seated in a rifle, both of which are apples and oranges to loose ammunition in a fire.

LUTNIT said:
Cooking off rounds in a steel magazine wont cause much of an explosion. I believe Box'o'truth did an article on that one. There are gaps and the opening at the top that will allow the gases to vent quite quickly without building up enough to explode.
Sealed, steel ammo cans (NATO style) are a different matter.
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I have seen loaded .308 ammunition projectiles exit out the front of the magazine that was seated in a G3/HK91 rifle. 3 rounds clearly exited out the front. Several more were ruptured, and some only had the primer popped out the back. All were expended.

And yes, tightly packed ammunition in sealed steel ammo cans were an eye opener as well.
 
critter928 said:
I have seen loaded .308 ammunition projectiles exit out the front of the magazine that was seated in a G3/HK91 rifle. 3 rounds clearly exited out the front. Several more were ruptured, and some only had the primer popped out the back. All were expended.
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For the bullet to have fired out the front the brass must have been supported enough to not burst. The test done on the box'o'truth was with loaded magazines in pouches that where fired at and the bullets cooked off in this manner. The bullets cooking off would have been less/not supported in the ruptured magazines so perhaps they split before firing off the bullets.
 
LUTNIT said:
For the bullet to have fired out the front the brass must have been supported enough to not burst. The test done on the box'o'truth was with loaded magazines in pouches that where fired at and the bullets cooked off in this manner. The bullets cooking off would have been less/not supported in the ruptured magazines so perhaps they split before firing off the bullets.
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That is correct, the three that exited the magazine did not have ruptured cases and the projectile came out the front. Others ruptured and were all there, and others only had the primer popped out (and I assumed propellant burned off through there).

I can't say why it happened (but will venture to guess the being seated in a firearm plays a huge part to the pressure curve reached), all I can say it did happen, and since then (combined with seeing firsthand what happens to ammunition combusted in a tightly packed steel ammo can) I look back on the SAAMI training videos, burning CF ammunition in a CF furnace, and my own personal experience of being young and stupid and throwing ammunition in a bonfire, and take it for what it is, an apples and oranges comparison of what is happening when they combust.

Ammunition in a steel magazine seated in a firearm, or ammunition in a tightly packed steel ammo can, have the potential to violently combust and send the projectile forward with enough force to pierce the steel magazine or steel ammunition can. Something that needs to be taken into account when dealing with them stored in such a state, and scenario not demonstrated in the SAAMI videos or the less scientific "box of truth".
 
You two are talking about different things.
1 is talking about ammunition bursting, which will not launch the bullets. (think about how useful a gun without a barrel is, then think even more useless)
the other is talking about exploding sealed steel boxes containing the ammunition which will act as a pipebomb.
 
Stray03 said:
You two are talking about different things.
1 is talking about ammunition bursting, which will not launch the bullets. (think about how useful a gun without a barrel is, then think even more useless)
the other is talking about exploding sealed steel boxes containing the ammunition which will act as a pipebomb.
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Not two different things.

The OP asked;
if your house is on fire, what happens to your ammo?
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And the answer depends on how you have them stored.

Plenty of people store their ammunition in metal ammo cans as more and more commercial ammunition comes in them (like Federal) and retailers are selling new ammunition cans by the pallet full (like Canada Ammo), so it pertains to more and more of us than the few who had surplus cans picked up from Princess Auto or from the army.

So the antidotal response of what happens when they are stored in a steel ammo can is totally valid.

And it does not create "exploding sealed steel boxes containing the ammunition which will act as a pipebomb", as only a small percentage of the rounds may cook off and go through the steel wall of the container. The rest will burst open like popcorn and bulge the hell out of the ammo can and at most pop the top. Hardly a "pipebomb", but the potential of even 1% of rounds in a 1000 rnd ammo can exiting with enough velocity to go through an ammo can is more dangerous than most give it credit for (because of the SAAMI video and mine others previous life experience with loose ammunition harmlessly cooking off giving us a false sense of security).
 
Thanks everyone for the input - so, leave ammo in cabinet but out of the cans when storing?
Is it also true that ammo should be left out of the safe?
 
theiss said:
Thanks everyone for the input - so, leave ammo in cabinet but out of the cans when storing?
Is it also true that ammo should be left out of the safe?
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"http://www.scribd.com/doc/46650619/Cfscmanual-e-Non-restricted-2008-Greyscale-Version


"Keep in mind that storing ammunition in an unvented container may create an explosive hazard during a fire."
 
YOU ARE ALL WRONG

We had a fire at the(informal) range to burn our cardboard from the shotgun boxes and targets once. Was a shotgun shell laying on the ground. Primer went off and buried 4 INCHES into my buddies leg. Tiny little peice of metal, looked like a throwing star. Had it been in my kids head or someone's neck, or hit an artery, might have been ugly.Once in a million, but it could happen. Saying a round won't explode and hurt you is wrong.
 
theiss said:
Thanks everyone for the input - so, leave ammo in cabinet but out of the cans when storing?
Is it also true that ammo should be left out of the safe?
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If you don't pack the cans tight with ammo (like leaving 20% of the room or so for expansion) then I see no problem with leaving your ammunition stored in steel ammo cans (it is how I do it now). In my experience, those left with that much room will just bulge the can and not exit it. Any tighter than that (like loaded to the top), will have several catastrophic failures with projectiles exiting the cans.

And I also leave all my loaded magazines in my safe, and there is no issue there either. If they are not seated in a firearm, they just pop off like any other ammunition and unless your safe is packed to the brim, there is plenty of room to safely expand.
 
1895Marlin said:
YOU ARE ALL WRONG

We had a fire at the(informal) range to burn our cardboard from the shotgun boxes and targets once. Was a shotgun shell laying on the ground. Primer went off and buried 4 INCHES into my buddies leg. Tiny little peice of metal, looked like a throwing star. Had it been in my kids head or someone's neck, or hit an artery, might have been ugly.Once in a million, but it could happen. Saying a round won't explode and hurt you is wrong.
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lol,

no one said loose exploding ammunition can't hurt you.

Even watch the video, it penetrated some sheet rock, but did not go very far or pose a risk to a firefighter in bunker gear (not an unprotected leg - even if I am highly skeptical of 4" of soft tissue penetration - breaking the skin, taking out an eye, yes, but 4" of soft tissue penetration?).
 
1895Marlin said:
YOU ARE ALL WRONG
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I don't think there's a book written on how to successfully argue points, get people to listen to you, and not look like a screaming petulant five year old on the internet. However if there were, I'm quite certain it would tell you this is not how to do it.
 
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