Since well constructed bullets like Barnes TSX and Nosler partitions seem to put down game the same whether a 7mm-08 or .30-06 or .260 Remington, then how much difference is switching bullet weights within the same caliber going to make? Given the same construction, what's the difference between a 150 grain or 220 grain TSX in a .30-06 in the real world?
If caliber is not so important...
- Thread starter philthygeezer
- Start date
With a shot through the lungs it doesn't take a higher priced premium bullet and the weight is not critical. Shot placement is still number one.
In a 30-06 a 220 grain bullet will penetrate more than a 150 and have a much poorer trajectory. I believe the 150 would perform better for the majority of hunting.
In a 30-06 a 220 grain bullet will penetrate more than a 150 and have a much poorer trajectory. I believe the 150 would perform better for the majority of hunting.
- Location
- Haliburton County, Central Ontario
From my perspective, your question is essentially answerable only if one knows the type of game and the distance to the animal from the muzzle. My belief has always been to use a slightly heavier bullet, in whatever caliber you are using, for shorter shots of say under 100 yards. Pass-throughs are okay, if they don't continue on through the 18" oak tree behind the deer as well. 
There is a huge thread here:
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911/p/1
When looking at the .338 test results the TSX does have better penetration as weight increases, and it also seems as though the penetration is very similar to similar weight premium cup and core bullets like the Partition and A-Frame.
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911/p/1
When looking at the .338 test results the TSX does have better penetration as weight increases, and it also seems as though the penetration is very similar to similar weight premium cup and core bullets like the Partition and A-Frame.
Of course if you use identical bullet construction in all tests, heavier bullets will penetrate more than lighter bullets due to momentum increasing with increased weight. Physics.
Whether that is important is another question. The reason it likely makes little difference in the calibers mentioned is that they are all capable with just about any bullet weight of taking smaller game. Bullet weight will only matter when it matters. A moose may need a lot more penetration than a deer. There is no absolute formula or value for bullet weight for any specific situation. Experienced, rational judgement is still a good thing.
Whether that is important is another question. The reason it likely makes little difference in the calibers mentioned is that they are all capable with just about any bullet weight of taking smaller game. Bullet weight will only matter when it matters. A moose may need a lot more penetration than a deer. There is no absolute formula or value for bullet weight for any specific situation. Experienced, rational judgement is still a good thing.
I believe our own bcsteve's tests with .264 bullets had similar findings.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162814
Personally I'd be interested in a wound channel comparison between the A-frame, partition and (T)TSX bullets
Me too. Penetration is vitally important, but, as FMJ bullets easily prove, there is a lot more to effective game bullets than just penetration.
The FMJ is at the extreme end of the spectrum - modern premium cup-and-core bullets have proven themselves over many decades - the Partition has been around for over 60 years.
I think that they will all provide a "sufficient" wound channel. The factors that I consider are accuracy and, lately, lack of lead (TSX and GMX). YMMV.
I believe impact velocity also plays a real part in the quick kill equation. High velocity impacts impart great hydraulic shock to the animal which in turn causes central nervous system disruption. IMHO this accounts for a lot of the "bang flops" when shooting deer with high velocity, light weight bullets.
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
A 220gr tsx from a 30-06 likely would not have enough speed to ensure that the bullet properly expands. As you move into the more specialised bullets their performance window narrows, they were designed for one thing and excel at that, but with a reduction in some other attribute.
In the real world the 150tsx is a better match for a 30-06, and would result in more consistent bullet performance.
In the real world the 150tsx is a better match for a 30-06, and would result in more consistent bullet performance.
That depends on velocity at time of impact....
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
#1 Barnes doesn't make a 220gr tsx, so the point is pretty much moot. So in reality the 150 is better.
#2 You can only launch a 220gr at roughly 2450fps from a 30-06. When you look at all the talk about the "failure" of the tsx you will notice one common theme, and that 2450fps muzzle velocity is below the impact speed that some are having trouble at. I love the tsx and use lots of them, but only in a weight/chambering that can push them with some speed.
#1 Barnes doesn't make a 220gr tsx, so the point is pretty much moot. So in reality the 150 is better.
#2 You can only launch a 220gr at roughly 2450fps from a 30-06. When you look at all the talk about the "failure" of the tsx you will notice one common theme, and that 2450fps muzzle velocity is below the impact speed that some are having trouble at. I love the tsx and use lots of them, but only in a weight/chambering that can push them with some speed.
I did remember wrong: 200 grain right?
I think I agree with the velocity comments. There's a Mythbusters about shooting into water that sheds some light on the subject.
John Barsness commented on penetration in a thread over on 24 Hour Campfire; he said that in Phil Schoemaker's testing he found the 220gr Partition in .308" outpenetrated all other tested expanding bullets. Supposedly Wolf Publishing published the article, but I have not been able to find it.
Maybe I'll pm Phil and he can send us a copy.
Maybe I'll pm Phil and he can send us a copy.
#1 Barnes doesn't make a 220gr tsx, so the point is pretty much moot. So in reality the 150 is better.
#2 You can only launch a 220gr at roughly 2450fps from a 30-06. When you look at all the talk about the "failure" of the tsx you will notice one common theme, and that 2450fps muzzle velocity is below the impact speed that some are having trouble at. I love the tsx and use lots of them, but only in a weight/chambering that can push them with some speed.
First off, I have never ever heard of anyone having expansion issues with a Barnes at 2450fps. That's ridiculous. 2000fps maybe, but I have had expansion personally down to 1800fps just fine.
I spend too much time reading and on forums and have never heard of any expansion issues with any bullet above 2200fps.
Second statement is for 1899: the partition and Aframe for the record are not cup and core, the are a frame. Cup and Core is a reference to construction. Interlocks, Prohunters, Hot-Cors are all cup and core. Now Grandslams, Northforks, Accubonds, are all Cup and Core premiums.
For the OP, it's all about penetration, and wind resistance maybe. But given that a 150gr TSX out of an '06 is likely to penetrate 30" on a moose, it maybe a moot point.
Here is some black pepper mixed with fly poop...
Don't want to let people think you know everything......
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
GMX would be worse again...
I love both GMX and TSX and TTSX, but you need to know your velocities and your range limits...
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
#1 Barnes doesn't make a 220gr tsx, so the point is pretty much moot. So in reality the 150 is better.
#2 You can only launch a 220gr at roughly 2450fps from a 30-06. When you look at all the talk about the "failure" of the tsx you will notice one common theme, and that 2450fps muzzle velocity is below the impact speed that some are having trouble at. I love the tsx and use lots of them, but only in a weight/chambering that can push them with some speed.
I have to disagree somewhat.
The GMX is known to need the higher velocities...
I have TSX's performing wonderfully at below 2200 fps.
Holy Mackerel. Quit the can of worms opened up here.
Premium bullets make any caliber punch outside their weight category. But at the same time, a gut shot or poorly placed bullet make any caliber inadequate.
From seeing dozens of animals put down with well placed shots, HMO is that given any opportunity to harvest an animal, a good/great bullet will increase your chances of anchoring it in place. Personally, i have been migrating from partitions to TSX based on a dozen or so fortunate situations.
Just an observation not meant to inflame those who have used a Sierra HPBT target bullet to get their name in B&C.
Premium bullets make any caliber punch outside their weight category. But at the same time, a gut shot or poorly placed bullet make any caliber inadequate.
From seeing dozens of animals put down with well placed shots, HMO is that given any opportunity to harvest an animal, a good/great bullet will increase your chances of anchoring it in place. Personally, i have been migrating from partitions to TSX based on a dozen or so fortunate situations.
Just an observation not meant to inflame those who have used a Sierra HPBT target bullet to get their name in B&C.
