If it was 1914...

Kirk1701

Kirk1701

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I always understand military history best if I imagine myself in such times. Obviously not in a "let's do this" frame of mind, but rather in a "god forbid." But if it were 1914, what would the process look like for a boy from North Hastings County, ON (Bancroft to be exact)? If I had been coerced into enlisting, what battalion would I have been sent to and when? Can anyone give me a good picture of this? Y'all can join in with your own stories as well. Nothing like bringing history to your front porch.
 
If it were 1914 you would not have ben "coerced" into enlisting and, if you had been, they would not have wanted you!

Slackers! Gods forbid! White-feather the whole cowardly bunch! Chances are your own BROTHERS wouldn't talk to you.

You did it for King and Country and for Poor Little Belgium and for the Raped Nuns and the fallen Soldiers with their eyes cut out and the Children Without Hands and to make the world safe from the Barbarous HUN! You did it for Mother England and for Glory and for Adventure..... and nobody thought about dying until it was too late.

And if you weren't up to it...... you were dog-meat!

Understand THAT first, then we can talk.

It is entirely likely, being that you gave a crap about what people thought about you, that you already would have been a member of your local Militia unit. These local units, at the beginning of the War, were united into Battalions for service Overseas. A Battalion was roughly 1000 men; there were more than 200 Battalions sent overseas. Battalions made up from local Militia units tended to be pretty much homogeneous as to that area; that is why my Grandfather's Battalion, the 54th, was also called "The Kootenay Regiment"...... until it took so many casulties that there were no men left in the Kootenays to refill it, so it was rebuilt (yet again) with men from New Brunswick..... and renamed 54th Battalion, Canadian Expeditionary Force (New Brunswick). The cap bdges were altered accordingly.
 
Coerced?

In that time one would not have to be coerced. There were plenty of volunteers willing to stand for their nation.

As there are today. Volunteered, every single one of the CF today. They have a "let's do this" frame of mind.
 
smellie said:
If it were 1914 you would not have ben "coerced" into enlisting and, if you had been, they would not have wanted you!

Slackers! Gods forbid! White-feather the whole cowardly bunch! Chances are your own BROTHERS wouldn't talk to you.

You did it for King and Country and for Poor Little Belgium and for the Raped Nuns and the fallen Soldiers with their eyes cut out and the Children Without Hands and to make the world safe from the Barbarous HUN! You did it for Mother England and for Glory and for Adventure..... and nobody thought about dying until it was too late.

And if you weren't up to it...... you were dog-meat!

Understand THAT first, then we can talk.

It is entirely likely, being that you gave a crap about what people thought about you, that you already would have been a member of your local Militia unit. These local units, at the beginning of the War, were united into Battalions for service Overseas. A Battalion was roughly 1000 men; there were more than 200 Battalions sent overseas. Battalions made up from local Militia units tended to be pretty much homogeneous as to that area; that is why my Grandfather's Battalion, the 54th, was also called "The Kootenay Regiment"...... until it took so many casulties that there were no men left in the Kootenays to refill it, so it was rebuilt (yet again) with men from New Brunswick..... and renamed 54th Battalion, Canadian Expeditionary Force (New Brunswick). The cap bdges were altered accordingly.
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Excellent point, Smellie. It was a completely different world in those days. Being as the paternal side of my family was German, I'd imagine I'd have had a bit of a crisis of conscience as whether I'd return to the Fatherland and fight for the Kaiser.

My maternal great-grandfather (whose Christian name I perpetuate) worked for the railroad, so he was drafted out west in 1917. He spent his war in England where he met my great-grandmother (who was from Aberdeen). I'm not sure the precise details there. He was 22 according to his recruitment form.

I'm guessing had I not gone to serve the Kaiser (as many Germans did), the local militia unit would've been the 1st Hastings Rifles. According to the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment's history, this militia unit was formed into the 39th, 80th, 136th, 155th, 254th, as well as the 21st and 77th Infantry Battalions. How did they determine which battalion you were assigned to? Whichever one needed more men?

Since my initial question pertains to 1914, I'm assuming the most logical battalion would be the 21st, but it doesn't seem like Hastings County was actively providing soldiers till 1916.
 
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fenceline said:
Coerced?

In that time one would not have to be coerced. There were plenty of volunteers willing to stand for their nation.

As there are today. Volunteered, every single one of the CF today. They have a "let's do this" frame of mind.
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I guess I was trying to point out that I personally in 2013, have no desire to fight. But I suppose if I'm playing the history game, the psychology matters. I suppose I've always assumed that if global war broke out today (and who says it can't happen), many would be caught up in the frenzy of service, but I would have a "Pte. Joker" (anachronism I know) duality of mind about the whole thing.

I'm also aware of the current spirit of service. I have one brother in the Air Force in Cold Lake and another brother who was a reservist first with the Hasty P's and then transferred to the 48th Highlanders.
 
Umm... If you lived in Quebec, coersion was the normal state of affairs. There was civil unrest over enlistment advertising and revolting mobs when conscription was being considered...
 
This reminds me of the book..The Brave Battalion. The remarkable saga of the 16th (Canadian Scottish) Battalion..A book you should read. You would have been sent to Valcartier for training, which tended to be rushed and chaotic due to its recent construction. Billeted in tents, your equipment was also limited to sporadic supplies at the time. In October (1st Division) you would have been sent to England in the hold of a ship. Men crammed into the depths of these ships, the smell of bodies and vomit almost unbearable along with the food. In England you would have been billeted in more tents on Salisbury Plain to undertake further training....The winter of 1914/15 in England on Salisbury Plain was one of the worst on record. Tents blew away, and the mud was knee deep. Men were constantly cold and wet..In late winter of 1915 you would have been sent to France, onboard another ship to a French port and then boarded onto cattle trucks for the journey to reserve areas near the front.
By this time your webbing and boots had already started to deteriorate. Many men already succumbing to sickness. Once again billets were limited, often resulting in troops making the best use of whatever (cow sheds etc.) could be found.
So now you are finally ready for poison gas, disease and death in the trenches at St.Julien near Ypres, with kit that's fallen apart and rifles that won't function properly. You have yet to hear of names like The Somme, Vimy Ridge and Passchendaele...
 
If this was 1914 there is a good chance that you would find yourself in the 2nd. Battalion, ( Eastern Ontario ), which was raised in Eastern Ontario or the 4th. Battalion (Central Ontario).

The 1st. Battalion (Ontario) was raised in South-western Ontario. L/C F.W. Hill - 47 Officers, 1106 other ranks
The 2nd. Battalion (Eastern Ontario) was raised in Eastern Ontario. L/C D. Watson - 45 Officers, 1098 other ranks
The 3rd. Battalion (Toronto) was raised in Toronto. L/C R. Rennie - 43 Officers, 1101 other ranks
The 4th. Battalion (Central Ontario) was raised in Central Ontario. L/C R.H. Labatt - 42 Officers, 1084 other ranks
The 5th. Battalion (Western Cavalry) was raised in the west. L/C G.S. Tuxford - 45 Officers, 1095 other ranks
The 6th. Battalion (Fort Garry Horse) was raised in Manitoba. L/C R.W. Patterson - 40 Officers, 1115 other ranks
The 7th. Battalion (British Columbia) was raised in BC. L/C W. Hart-McHarg - 47 Officers, 1176 other ranks
The 8th. Battalion (Black Devis) was raised in Brandon and Winnipeg, Manitoba. L/C L.J. Lipsett - 45 Officers, 1087 other ranks
The 9th. Battalion was raised in Edmonton Alberta and Ottawa, Ontario. L/C S.M. Rogers - 44 Officers, 1101 other ranks
The 10th. Battalion (10th Canadians) was raised in Calgary Alberta and Winnipeg, Manitoba. - L/C R.L. Boyle - 41 Officers, 1065 other ranks
The 11th. Battalion was raised in Saskatchewan. L/C R. Burritt - 45 Officers, 1119 other ranks
The 12th. Battalion was raised in Quebec, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island. L/C H.F. McLeod - 45 Officers, 1028 other ranks
The 13th. Battalion (Royal Highlanders of Canada) was raised in Quebec and Nova Scotia. L/C F.O.W. Loomis - 45 Officers, 1112 other ranks
The 14th. Battalion (Royal Montrea Regiment) was raised from the Royal Montreal Regiment. L/C F.J. Meighen - 46 Officers, 1097 other ranks
The 15th. Battalion (48th Highlanders of Canada) was raised in Ontario and Quebec. L/C J.A. Currie - 44 Officers, 1109 other ranks
The 16th. Battalion (Canadian Scottish) was raised in British Columbia, Manitoba and Ontario. L/C S.G. Robertson - 47 Officers, 1096 other ranks
The 17th. Battalion (Nova Scotia Highlanders) was raised in Nova Scotia. Surplus Infantry at Valcartier were assigned to this Battalion. RESERVE - 39 Officers, 717 other ranks


These 17 Battalions were Mobilized at Camp Valcartier, Quebec. Approximately 35,000 men trained there, (The First Contingent.) They left Canada on October 3, 1914, and arrived in England on the 16th of October, 1914. They were then further trained in England, before embarking for France.
 
fenceline said:
Conscription came about in 1917.

OP said 1914. Only volunteers from 14 to 16.
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Yes I know. Re-read my post, I talked about recruiting posters and mentioned conscription to show it eventually led to riots.

Here is a good read on the subject:

http://www.warmuseum.ca/education/online-educational-resources/dispatches/french-canada-and-recruitment-during-the-first-world-war/

French Canada and Recruitment
Following the nation-wide outbursts of patriotism in August 1914, French-Canadian support for the war began to decline. There existed among French Canadians a tradition of suspicion and even hostility towards the British Empire, and, while sympathetic to France, Britain’s ally, few French Canadians were willing to risk their lives in its defence either. After all, for over a century following the British conquest of New France in 1760, France showed no interest in the welfare of French Canadians. In North America, les Canadiens had survived and grown, remaining culturally vibrant without French support. By 1914, while an educated élite in French Canada professed some cultural affinity, most French Canadians did not identify with anti-clerical and scandal-ridden France.
When a French government propaganda mission toured Québec in 1918, Bourassa spoke for French Canada when he wrote of the irony of the French “trying to have us offer the kinds of sacrifices for France which France never thought of troubling itself with to defend French Canada”. In short, neither France nor Britain was “a mother country” retaining the allegiance of French Canadians. The “patriotic” call to arms rang hollow.
[...]
French Canada’s views were reflected in low enrollment numbers. Yet, most Canadians of military age, notwithstanding language, did not volunteer. Those tied to the land, generations removed from European immigration, or married, volunteered the least. Significantly, these characteristics applied most often to French Canadians, although many rural English-Canadians were not enlisting either. If British immigrants are not counted, the respective contributions of French and English Canadians are more proportional than the raw data would suggest.
When the first contingent of the CEF sailed in October 1914, it contained a single organized French-speaking company (about 150 men). Sam Hughes at first refused to authorize any French-language units. The second contingent of over 20,000 men, despatched to Britain in early 1915, had a single French-speaking Québec battalion, the 22nd, later nicknamed the “Van Doos.” Besides this battalion, the CEF was almost entirely an English-language institution, hardly an inducement for a French-Canadian to volunteer. A mere 13 of 258 infantry battalions formed during the course of the war were raised in French Canada, and all struggled to attract and retain recruits.
[...]

French Canada supplied approximately 15,000 volunteers during the war. Most came from the Montreal area, though Québec City, Western Québec and Eastern Ontario provided significant numbers. A precise total is difficult to establish since attestation papers did not require enlistees to indicate their mother tongue. Though French Canadians comprised nearly 30 percent of the Canadian population, they made up only about 4 percent of Canadian volunteers. Less than 5 percent of Quebec’s males of military age were enrolled in infantry battalions, compared to 14-15 percent in Western Canada and Ontario. Moreover, half of Quebec’s recruits were English Canadian and nearly half of French-Canadian volunteers came from provinces other than Québec. The result was an angry national debate concerning French Canada’s, and especially Québec’s, manpower contribution.

Conscription and its Aftermath
When Borden pledged in 1914 that there would be no conscription in Canada he also maintained that Canada would furnish whatever manpower was needed to help win the war. By the spring of 1917, these two policies had become irreconcilable. Voluntary enrollment was no longer producing the reinforcements necessary to maintain Canada’s commitment in the field where the CEF had suffered appalling casualties. Worse was yet to come.
In May 1917, Borden visited Vimy Ridge in the immediate aftermath of that costly Canadian victory. Moved by the hardships endured by the troops and proud of their battlefield achievements, on May 18, upon his return to Canada, Borden announced that “all citizens are liable for the defence of their country and I conceive that the battle for Canadian liberty and autonomy is being fought on the plains of France and Belgium.” The government began drafting the Military Service Act.
Many English Canadians hailed the step as a military necessity, but also as a means of forcing French Canada to augment its low enlistment rate. Saturday Night magazine insisted that “it is certainly not the intention of English Canada to stand idly by and see itself bled white of men in order that the Québec shirker may sidestep his responsibilities.” English Canada hated Bourassa as much as the German Kaiser. There was little sympathy for French Canadians and little understanding of the demographic, cultural or historical factors which might have dissuaded them from enlisting.
The Military Service Act became law on August 28. Former prime minister Sir Wilfrid Laurier claimed the measure “has in it the seeds of discord and disunion”. He was correct; anti-conscription demonstrations occurred regularly in Montreal in the summer of 1917. Angry crowds broke office windows at the pro-conscription Montreal newspaper, The Gazette. The home of Lord Atholstan, proprietor of the equally pro-conscription Montreal Daily Star, was dynamited earlier that month although he escaped unharmed. Recruiting officers in various parts of Québec made themselves scarce for fear of their lives. Crowds chanted: “Nous en avons assez de l’Union Jack!”
The political truce which had prevented a wartime election ended. Parliament was dissolved in October 1917 and pro-conscription Liberals joined Borden’s Conservatives to form a Union Government, something of a misnomer since its founding was the result of national disunity. Some labour groups, most farmers and many Canadians of non-British origin were also firmly opposed to conscription. J.C. Watters, the president of the Trades and Labour Congress threatened that if conscription passed, Canadian workers “would lay down… tools and refuse to work”.
The ensuing December 17 “conscription” election was by far the most bitterly-contested and linguistically-divisive in Canadian history. In the end, the Unionists won 153 seats against the Laurier Liberals’ 82, including 62 obtained in Québec, but the popular vote was less than 100,000 in favour of the Unionists. The result was profound alienation in French Canada. Conscription was considered the result of the English-language majority imposing its views over a French-language minority on an issue of life and death. Conceptions of Canada and definitions of patriotism had never been further apart. Canadian national unity had never seemed so fragile.
The first group of conscripts were called in January 1918. There were slightly more than 400,000 Class I registrants; that is, unmarried and childless males aged 20-34. Nationally, almost 94 percent of these men applied for various exemptions from service (98 percent in Québec) and the appeal boards established to review these cases granted nearly 87 percent of their requests (91 percent in Québec). Some 28,000 others (18,000 in Québec) simply defaulted and went into hiding to avoid arrest by military or civilian police. Conscription was unpopular among those called, regardless of region, occupation or ethnicity.
The tension in Québec was palpable. At the end of March 1918 a mob destroyed the offices of the Military Service Registry in Québec City. Conscript troops were rushed from Toronto and on April 1 they opened fire with machine guns on a threatening crowd, killing four demonstrators and wounding dozens of others. The extent of the violence shocked the country. Religious leaders and civic authorities successfully appealed for calm. The rioting stopped, but the bitter memories would linger for decades.
Of the 620,000 men who served in the CEF, about 108,000 were conscripts. Fewer than 48,000 of these proceeded overseas and, before the war ended in November 1918, only 24,000 actually served at the front. Although all of the conscripts would have been urgently needed at the front if the war had continued into 1919, as expected, conscription hardly seemed worth the effort given the severity of the national disunity it caused. In the postwar period, French-Canadian nationalistes would point to the conscription crisis as evidence of the impossibility of reconciling the views of French and English speakers in Canada. The events of 1917-1918 forced the government of William Lyon Mackenzie King to tread warily over the same issue during the Second World War.
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They asked for 500 volunteers from Newfoundland. 5000 showed up. Sgt Tommy Ricketts was a little later on. The youngest to ever receive the Victoria Cross in a combat role.
 
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