Import a 203?

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maxim08

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Not sure if this is the correct forum but here goes.
I understand that these are restricted in Canada.

I've been offered a used 203 laucher.
It's in the US of A.
Can I export this from the US and import here?

Alternately I've been offered on from the UK. This one has had the firing pin removed and a 'pin inserted across the chamber'. Same questions.

Regards,
John
 
I'm a waitin for the peanut gallery to chime in here................

waiting............................
 
The M203 and barrel together are considered a Title 1 firearm in the US. That definition is inclusive of all "normal" firearms, ie. rifles, etc, similar to our non-restricted in their legality, in the US.

Therefore, the exportation out of the US would require a similar request through all the appropriate agencies, as would a 'normal' firearm.

With the nature of this beast, I would be very surprised if the US State Dept would grant an export permit, specifically under ITAR for an M203.

XXOO Peanut Gallery
 
I believe the M203 is an ITAR controlled item....the US will not let it out to non-government. It would also require an import permit from DFAIT. Clive ###, who used to be in that position, mentioned on this site:
.......... in the six years that I oversaw the import and export of firearms and military goods I NEVER allowed the importation of M203 (or any other 40mm) launchers - much to the dismay of several dealers who tried to convince me otherwise.
Click to expand...
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132788&page=4

As to the import of the deactivated one, currently Canada customs has you bring in deactivated firearms (the M203 is now considered a registered firearm in Canada) as if they were live. This is going to bring you back to the DFAIT desk where you will likely get the response quoted in the previous paragraph. Note that even parts for the M203 are going to fall under DFAIT control, as do all parts for military launchers of smoke, gas or grenade.
_______
 
Stencollector et al,
Thanks for the input. I had not seen the DFAIT thread re launchers when I was searching. Probably because I had no idea what DFAIT was.
Everything seems clear. Re the Dlask GL issues, is it 'safe' to buy a launcher from the forum exchange or are they potentially in jeopardy of being seized?
Regards,
John
 
maxim08 said:
Stencollector et al,
Thanks for the input. I had not seen the DFAIT thread re launchers when I was searching. Probably because I had no idea what DFAIT was.
Everything seems clear. Re the Dlask GL issues, is it 'safe' to buy a launcher from the forum exchange or are they potentially in jeopardy of being seized?
Regards,
John
Click to expand...
Every gun in Canada has the potential for being siezed.
 
maxim08 said:
Stencollector et al,
Thanks for the input. I had not seen the DFAIT thread re launchers when I was searching. Probably because I had no idea what DFAIT was.
Everything seems clear. Re the Dlask GL issues, is it 'safe' to buy a launcher from the forum exchange or are they potentially in jeopardy of being seized?
Regards,
John
Click to expand...

The problem with Dlask's M203 import was (as far as I can tell) that while he brought them in thru Canada Customs, he neglected to get an import permit for them. Canada Customs erroneously allowed them thru. The dept of Controlled Goods merely acted after the fact to correct this, by seizing what they could find as illegally imoprted. The jury is still out on that one.....time will tell. But if there is one thing the government has, it's time.

As for the ones already in the country, since they are now registered non-restricted firearms, if you find one you would simply have to register it. Hopefully it does not have a production serial number from the last few years, and if it does, don't be calling Colt trying to buy spare parts for it.
 
stencollector said:
The problem with Dlask's M203 import was (as far as I can tell) that while he brought them in thru Canada Customs, he neglected to get an import permit for them. Canada Customs erroneously allowed them thru. The dept of Controlled Goods merely acted after the fact to correct this, by seizing what they could find as illegally imoprted. The jury is still out on that one.....time will tell. But if there is one thing the government has, it's time.

As for the ones already in the country, since they are now registered non-restricted firearms, if you find one you would simply have to register it. Hopefully it does not have a production serial number from the last few years, and if it does, don't be calling Colt trying to buy spare parts for it.
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That sounds good but the fact is that Canada does NOT require Import Permits for Non-Restricted or Restricted firearms (only for Prohibited Firearms and Prohibited Devices).

The IIC that DFAIT issues is not required by Canada, but rather a service offered to assist Canadian Importers so they can get the required Export Permits from the country of origin. If the US (for example) didn't ask for an IIC from Ottawa then we'd have no requirement to get one.

If memory serves, at the time those units were imported, the M203 was still not classified as a firearm (that came later) but whether classified as a "Restricted" firearm or as a non-firearm there is no Canadian requirement for an "Import Permit" so that would not be the reason for seizing them... there's more to it than that.

Mark
 
Mark currently the M203 falls under the Controlled Goods Directorate which requires that a end user certificate be issued to the buyer,which all so restricts any of us mere mortals from acquiring one
 
Savage said:
Mark currently the M203 falls under the Controlled Goods Directorate which requires that a end user certificate be issued to the buyer,which all so restricts any of us mere mortals from acquiring one
Click to expand...
Ugh, there's simply way too many levels of government in this country. We could stand to lose a few. I wouldn't be surprised if the monetary savings alone could pay off the debt in 2 years.
 
Questar said:
That sounds good but the fact is that Canada does NOT require Import Permits for Non-Restricted or Restricted firearms (only for Prohibited Firearms and Prohibited Devices).

The IIC that DFAIT issues is not required by Canada, but rather a service offered to assist Canadian Importers so they can get the required Export Permits from the country of origin. If the US (for example) didn't ask for an IIC from Ottawa then we'd have no requirement to get one.

If memory serves, at the time those units were imported, the M203 was still not classified as a firearm (that came later) but whether classified as a "Restricted" firearm or as a non-firearm there is no Canadian requirement for an "Import Permit" so that would not be the reason for seizing them... there's more to it than that.

Mark
Click to expand...

Far be it for me to argue with a guy who is in the import game, but I am talking about an import permit, not an import certificate. And an import permit is required to bring in goods that fall under the controlled goods act. Military dischargers for grenades, smoke or gas, fall under their realm. Collectors I know had simple 4" X 12" pieces of tube, with one end capped, siezed because they were the barrel for WW2 smoke dischargers. Reason: no import permit (not certificate, which would have been a moot point by the time they were already in Canada).
 
SAVAGE;
You are 100% correct, the M-203 comes under the Directorate of Controlled Goods....
According to them you must be registered with the Directorate to own one of these....
All members should read up on Controlled Goods, it is the big back door to getting at collectors....
John
 
Savage said:
Mark currently the M203 falls under the Controlled Goods Directorate which requires that a end user certificate be issued to the buyer,which all so restricts any of us mere mortals from acquiring one
Click to expand...

Not saying you're wrong but please show me where it says that.

The CGD regulates export (not import) and to some degree possession/access... Do you see the M203 specifically listed by CGD as a controlled item? I couldn't find it listed.

Since it's been classified as a "Restricted" firearm it means that anyone with a Restricted PAL can possess it... CGD doesn't make possession or importation an issue... just re-export.

I'll say again that IIC's are issued to facilitate getting Export Permits from other countries... Import Permits are required for "Prohibited" items being brought into Canada... the M203 is not a Prohibited item and therefore does not require an Import Permit.

If I'm wrong please show me where in the CGR it says that the M203 is controlled importation or possession.

Mark
 
Questar said:
Since it's been classified as a "Restricted" firearm it means that anyone with a Restricted PAL can possess it... CGD doesn't make possession or importation an issue... just re-export.

Mark
Click to expand...

They (certain single shot 40mm launchers) are listed on the FRT as a NON restricted.

A couple of things.
- Being non restricted, there is still an amnesty on non restricted firearms.

- If in fact it is legally a non restricted firearm, it then opens up a whole new GREAT world with these "firearms". Up to now all that has been legally shot out of them has been plastic/wood/foam rounds.. Pretty anemic. If now non restricted, owners can legally shoot the shotgun rounds, 22 rounds, subcal kits, etc etc. It makes these things into something that was never intended, but could be a wonderful thing for GL owners.. Totally against manufacturers intent, wishes, etc, but still may be a good time.

- However, just because something is on the FRT does not make it legally proper. The FRT is simply an administrative tool as developed, controlled and manufactured by the RCMP. Some of the information on that disc is simply "interpretation". Therefore not legally binding.

At least that's my opinion.:)
 
However, just because something is on the FRT does not make it legally proper. The FRT is simply an administrative tool as developed, controlled and manufactured by the RCMP. Some of the information on that disc is simply "interpretation". Therefore not legally binding.
Click to expand...

That may be so but it could also mean that if "they" tried to jam you up that you may have a defence of offical misdirection and/or colour of right... it may not be legally binding but it certainly has legal effect.
 
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okay. do you guys want the results of what $11,000 in lawyers got me on this fight with Ottawa and the CGD...or am i gonna get pissed on for talking about 40mm in public?
 
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