Import a 203?
- Thread starter maxim08
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Southern ON.
listening.
Ok pumpkin, spill the beans.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I always prefer to hear first hand information over the hypothesis the armchair athletes will spout. So let's have it Strangeday.
Can I take a stab at it before Strangeday gets overly abused again?
A 40mm GL is listed as a controlled good in the Export Control List. See section 2-2.a. on page 49 (smoothbore projectile launcher larger than 20mm)
http://www.international.gc.ca/eicb/military/documents/exportcontrols2006-en.pdf
The Export and Import Permits Act says you need paperwork to get controlled goods into and out of Canada
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/E-19///en
There is also the Defense Production Act.
http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/D-1///en
Read the schedule of what is covered at the very end of the Act
This Act governs who can (or can not) possess Controlled Goods WITHIN Canada. It includes specific items on the Controlled Goods List, including the section on 40mm GLs
Sec 37 of the DPA reads
37. (1) No person shall, unless the person is registered under section 38 or exempt from registration under section 39 or 39.1, knowingly examine or possess a controlled good or transfer a controlled good to another person.
The Controlled Goods Directorate is responsible for ensuring people/companies possessing or manufacturing controlled goods in Canada are in compliance with the DPA
So if it is a controlled good covered under the Schedule in the DPA and already in Canada, and you are possessing it, according to the DPA you need to be registered with the CGD
Want to know who is registered ?
http://www.cgd.gc.ca/cgdweb/text/regsearch/regsearch_e.htm
A 40mm GL is listed as a controlled good in the Export Control List. See section 2-2.a. on page 49 (smoothbore projectile launcher larger than 20mm)
http://www.international.gc.ca/eicb/military/documents/exportcontrols2006-en.pdf
The Export and Import Permits Act says you need paperwork to get controlled goods into and out of Canada
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/E-19///en
There is also the Defense Production Act.
http://lois.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowFullDoc/cs/D-1///en
Read the schedule of what is covered at the very end of the Act
This Act governs who can (or can not) possess Controlled Goods WITHIN Canada. It includes specific items on the Controlled Goods List, including the section on 40mm GLs
Sec 37 of the DPA reads
37. (1) No person shall, unless the person is registered under section 38 or exempt from registration under section 39 or 39.1, knowingly examine or possess a controlled good or transfer a controlled good to another person.
The Controlled Goods Directorate is responsible for ensuring people/companies possessing or manufacturing controlled goods in Canada are in compliance with the DPA
So if it is a controlled good covered under the Schedule in the DPA and already in Canada, and you are possessing it, according to the DPA you need to be registered with the CGD
Want to know who is registered ?
http://www.cgd.gc.ca/cgdweb/text/regsearch/regsearch_e.htm
Here is the definition of that group from the Guide:
2-2. Smooth-bore weapons with a calibre of 20 mm or more, other weapons or armament with a calibre greater than 12.7 mm (calibre 0.50 inches), projectors and accessories, as follows, and specially designed components therefor:
a. Guns, howitzers, cannon, mortars, anti-tank weapons, projectile
launchers, military flame throwers, recoilless rifles and signature
reduction devices therefor;
I think the 40 mm GL is covered in there.
2-2. Smooth-bore weapons with a calibre of 20 mm or more, other weapons or armament with a calibre greater than 12.7 mm (calibre 0.50 inches), projectors and accessories, as follows, and specially designed components therefor:
a. Guns, howitzers, cannon, mortars, anti-tank weapons, projectile
launchers, military flame throwers, recoilless rifles and signature
reduction devices therefor;
I think the 40 mm GL is covered in there.
Okay,
For $11,000 in lawyers, two trips to Ottawa, 5 FOI requests and 6 favours from people who will get fired from their nice rcmp and provincial police and crown attorney jobs if I were to thank them here in person.
To clear up the popular misconception that this crap started with me I can without exception state that this whole fiasco started with NWEST investigating a number of things that were being done at DLASK. This was going on several months before my issue. NWEST brought the 40mm issue to the RCMP in Ottawa with a request for classification. NWEST’s investigation started when the US State Department originally complained to Ottawa about the sale of COLT M203’s from DLASK in BC to civilians in Canada when they were originally destined overseas and were now being sold in violation of ITAR regulations they were the original complainant.
RCMP in Ottawa had no idea about the M576 shotshells for the M203. In fact the US Military is no longer purchasing them. The US State Department provided RCMP in Ottawa with a munitions list which included the M576. This was used to make the determination that GL’s were indeed firearms. My GL was the first registered GL Firearm.
As a result of my incident I was contacted by CGD who advised me that they assumed responsibility for ensuring the persons in possession of GL’s, Mortars and other listed items were registered with the CGD. As for Marks assertion that since they are “rifled” they exempt from CGD domain that is moot. CGD has been assigned the GL’s as controlled items pursuant to ITAR and DFAIT. In the US GL’s are classified as registered destructive devices.
While going through the CGD process the RCMP registered my GL and sent me my registration certificate. The RCMP refused to provide CGD a police clearance and criminal records check so I had to obtain one from the local police.
THE CONDITIONS OF CGD REGISTERING ME WERE!
1. I had submit to an annual home inspection and allow them to determine if I could provide satisfactory storage.
2. I could not allow anyone access or possession or handling of my GL who was not registered.
3. I could opt out of being listed as a registered person.
4. I could not remove it from storage without their permission or consent
5. My wife would have to register
6. They would interview friends, neighbours, co-workers and family in the process
Other Gestapo conditions would also be applied at their discretion. I would need to renew my registration every year as well.
I was also advised that my international travel could be monitored and my business activities and transactions could also be reviewed.
In the coming months I also learned that the CGD and RCMP were developing a program to track down the owners of listed items and enforce CGD registration and RCMP registration. Although at present the police resources did not exist to implement this it was very much being planned for. ITAR and US interested were also pressuring compliance. Johnone (marstar) knows about this as one of my sources turned up the RCMP making inquires to him about the mortars he sold last year. The RCMP have an investigation on going about the sale of GL’s, Mortars and other listed items. They will be coming to look for them. You cannot hide from this issue.
The government and Ottawa did not like giving up any of the information on this issue and I did get some assistance from police who were not happy with the cloak and dagger BS. They came to me with memos and gave me places to look for information when others would not.
Some of you will reap what you sow, the “lets keep this hush hush” emails I got is typical Canadian ostrich behaviour. Some of you may have to learn to fight for whats yours.
For $11,000 in lawyers, two trips to Ottawa, 5 FOI requests and 6 favours from people who will get fired from their nice rcmp and provincial police and crown attorney jobs if I were to thank them here in person.
To clear up the popular misconception that this crap started with me I can without exception state that this whole fiasco started with NWEST investigating a number of things that were being done at DLASK. This was going on several months before my issue. NWEST brought the 40mm issue to the RCMP in Ottawa with a request for classification. NWEST’s investigation started when the US State Department originally complained to Ottawa about the sale of COLT M203’s from DLASK in BC to civilians in Canada when they were originally destined overseas and were now being sold in violation of ITAR regulations they were the original complainant.
RCMP in Ottawa had no idea about the M576 shotshells for the M203. In fact the US Military is no longer purchasing them. The US State Department provided RCMP in Ottawa with a munitions list which included the M576. This was used to make the determination that GL’s were indeed firearms. My GL was the first registered GL Firearm.
As a result of my incident I was contacted by CGD who advised me that they assumed responsibility for ensuring the persons in possession of GL’s, Mortars and other listed items were registered with the CGD. As for Marks assertion that since they are “rifled” they exempt from CGD domain that is moot. CGD has been assigned the GL’s as controlled items pursuant to ITAR and DFAIT. In the US GL’s are classified as registered destructive devices.
While going through the CGD process the RCMP registered my GL and sent me my registration certificate. The RCMP refused to provide CGD a police clearance and criminal records check so I had to obtain one from the local police.
THE CONDITIONS OF CGD REGISTERING ME WERE!
1. I had submit to an annual home inspection and allow them to determine if I could provide satisfactory storage.
2. I could not allow anyone access or possession or handling of my GL who was not registered.
3. I could opt out of being listed as a registered person.
4. I could not remove it from storage without their permission or consent
5. My wife would have to register
6. They would interview friends, neighbours, co-workers and family in the process
Other Gestapo conditions would also be applied at their discretion. I would need to renew my registration every year as well.
I was also advised that my international travel could be monitored and my business activities and transactions could also be reviewed.
In the coming months I also learned that the CGD and RCMP were developing a program to track down the owners of listed items and enforce CGD registration and RCMP registration. Although at present the police resources did not exist to implement this it was very much being planned for. ITAR and US interested were also pressuring compliance. Johnone (marstar) knows about this as one of my sources turned up the RCMP making inquires to him about the mortars he sold last year. The RCMP have an investigation on going about the sale of GL’s, Mortars and other listed items. They will be coming to look for them. You cannot hide from this issue.
The government and Ottawa did not like giving up any of the information on this issue and I did get some assistance from police who were not happy with the cloak and dagger BS. They came to me with memos and gave me places to look for information when others would not.
Some of you will reap what you sow, the “lets keep this hush hush” emails I got is typical Canadian ostrich behaviour. Some of you may have to learn to fight for whats yours.
- Location
- Southern ON.
nevermind.
Last edited:
Last edited:
- Location
- Southern ON.
What makes the 37mm exempt from this? Or is it.
37mm is not a firearm
however CGD has declared them under their juristiction....37mm are on the block also..
sorry
however CGD has declared them under their juristiction....37mm are on the block also..
sorry
So Strangeday a couple of things...
1. Where did you find a law firm that was specialized enough to be able to handle your situation? Or was it lawyer specializing in import/export rather than firearms?
2. Are you really gonna comply with that bull####? It would seem that you would be giving up a hell of alot of personal privacy for a very expensive paperweight...
?
1. Where did you find a law firm that was specialized enough to be able to handle your situation? Or was it lawyer specializing in import/export rather than firearms?
2. Are you really gonna comply with that bull####? It would seem that you would be giving up a hell of alot of personal privacy for a very expensive paperweight...
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