IMR and Hornady for 30-06

I know those 17s can shoot. If your rifle is properly bedded and you are using a good Leupold scope, this is a puzzling situation indeed. Your combination of 4350 and a 165-grain Hornady bullet is about as classic a load as you can get for a .30-06. In fact, it's such a classic that you can say that if it doesn't group well, then something is going on.

I've found that every single P14/17 of my acquaintance prefers a bit of bedding near the forend tip, so I would try that next if you haven't already done so. I also don't know your level of experience shooting, and, as one poster said, I don't know how hot you allowed the rifle to get while shooting. Make sure you use good, consistent technique and don't let the barrel get too hot. A good rule of thumb is no more than 3 shots with a hunting-weight barrel before you give it some time to cool down.

You might want to try a 180-grain Hornady flat base next. If you can't get that to work with 4350, then something is definitely wrong. For the time being, stay away from boat tails and use flat base bullets if at all possible. Flat base bullets tend to be more forgiving in older and/or looser barrels, so you want to give yourself the best odds of success.
 
Thanks. Ive been trying FOREVER to get flat base 165's. I havnt looked for 180's. Thats why i gave up and got the Boat tails. Rifle is bedded and the Scope was recently refurbed by Korth, timmny trigger, re-worked safety, touched up crown. Not a speck of rust anywhere. How long should I let the rifle cool between groups? I was giving it around 25 mins after 5 shots.

Here is the rifle.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1074350-Model-1917-Info-Needed
 
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I shoot 165 Interbonds over 58.0 grains of H4350 in my Ruger M77 MKII RSI, and 59.5 grains of H4350 with the 165 IB in my No.1-RSI. I have also had good results with RL-22 (which I am out of) and W760.
 
VancouverSkiBum said:
Thank you all.

I went out to the range today for the first time with my reloads. Im having an extremely hard time finding info on Hornady INTERLOCK 165g BTSP. So I decided to start with what the previous owner had told me. fav load at 57g, but start a bit low.

I decided to go with 54.5 up to 57 in .5 grain increments.

I had the rifle on a home made full size rest.

I also tried to let the barrel cool down between volleys as it was getting quite hot. I was doing 5 shot groups @ 100. Im not really sure what to make of the results, some input is appreciated. Seems like I had some flyers? I may add more info, im tired now and going to bed. Cheers!

Oh, and this may be a silly question, but with the lead at the tip not always being the same, how do you measure a constant COL?

N1EJK2G.jpg
Click to expand...


OK, it seems that your rifle has all the features that one would expect to make a P17 really sing, including forend bedding. Since others have said this rifle shoots, then for the time being, we can eliminate the rifle as a factor.

There is no indication in your target photos about the order of your shots. If the general pattern is that shots 4 and 5 are the flyers, then you have a barrel heating problem. FYI, most hunting rifles don't like to be shot five times without a break. If you plan to shoot 5-round groups, I'd shoot no more than 3 shots and then wait some time before firing shots 4 and 5. The amount of time depends on the barrel heat. Those P17 barrels are skinny, so they heat up fast.

You chose well with a 165-grain Hornady BTSP and IMR 4350. That combination in the .30-06 is about like turkey + cranberry; apple pie + ice cream; mashed potatoes + gravy -- loved by pretty much everyone. The Hornady bullet, in particular, is the best choice for this kind of rifle. Hornady bullets tend to be softer than other brands, and this means that they are more forgiving of slightly weird dimensions of older military barrels (and P17 barrels were on the loose side to begin with). I agree that a boattail could be your problem (assuming that it is not simply heat-stringing shots 4 and 5 all the time). If you switch to a 180 Hornady flat base with IMR 4350, that is basically guaranteed to work in a .30-06. If it doesn't work, then there is something wrong somewhere, possibly with your barrel itself.

You also need to be honest about your own shooting ability. It takes a bit of focus and experience to shoot groups systematically and consistently. In fact, to eliminate some of these human factors, I've personally adopted the "round robin" shooting technique recommended by Dan Newberry in his OCW method. (Google it. This technique makes a lot of sense and it might even give you some insights into the target you posted.) Basically, fire one shot at a time out of each load, at different targets, working your way up in charges. When you reach the top, start working your way back down. Monitor your barrel heat and rest as needed. By the end of the process, you will have targets just like you posted, only this time all of the shots will have been fired in a different sequence. This will eliminate the flyers often associated with shooting one entire group in a string.

Finally, I agree with the others that you should actually be able to push higher than 57 grains of IMR 4350 with this rifle and combination. I personally wouldn't hesitate to push it up to 58.5 -- something that writer John Barsness established is perfectly acceptable by doing exactly that in the Nosler pressure lab, and getting confirmation that 58.5 grains of IMR 4350 raised the pressures up to about those associated with .270 Winchester factory loads -- something which your strong P17 action should be able to digest without a hiccup.

I do believe, however, that a 180-grain Hornady flat base should make a difference with this rifle -- as long as barrel heat is not the cause of your flyers.
 
ill admit im no sharpshooter, and keeping steady on the 1 inch square at 100 yards is a bit hard. Perhaps I need some more practice.

The target above was in order, counter clockwise starting from the top right.

I went to the range again, and started with the hot loads first, working down. I had the same results, in that the hotter loads (around 57) were not grouping well, and the lower ones were looking better. But they were still all over the place at 100 yards because I could not zoom in enough.

I went again, but this time shot at 50 yards, and used some 54.8, 55, and 55.2 loads. Here is a picture. again, counterclockwise starting from the top right with 54.8, then 55, then 55.2. dont mind the other groups. i also had a squib load on the 2nd group, thats why theres only 2 shots. seems like my rifle likes 54.8g.

NTXDKGZ.jpg
 
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9 power isn't enough on your scope?? All of mine are 3-9 scopes even my hmr and no problems sighting them in. Just the other day tried out 59gr of imr 4350 and 150gr sst's shot in the .3's

Try using targets like this they will help you keep the same poa

This isn't my group just found it on google
Cooper223.JPG


91lJE1Wu-HL._SL1500_.jpg
 
Im getting better. Its my first big game rifle so im starting to get used to it. here is 5 shots at 100 from today 55.5g. I shot 2 and then the buzzer went, then finished the other 3 after target changes. Im hoping thats why the group looks odd. Zeroed for 200 thats why its high. Small holes are from my .223. Dont mind them. Whole other story.

Cheers.

WAdeNH6.jpg
 
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If you are shooting 2-3 inch groups with both your '06 and 223 it may just be that you need more trigger time learning how to shoot off the rest.
 
right, well, did you read any of the other posts? It seems I am improving. at least I think I am. and the .223 is another story, on another thread. I seriously think that last group there would of been great if it wasnt for the break. Guess ill have to try again next time. Only loaded 10 rounds for todays trip. For me the important thing so far is getting an accurate load for big game, and i think ive done that. I wish it was moving a little faster though. may try different bullets in the future.
 
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And, for those who say I could push 58.5gn... I tried 57.5 and the higher I went from 56+ the groups got larger. Would the Flat Base bullet make the difference I need to push these hot loads accurately?
 
I use 165 gr Hornady SSTs with IMR4350 at 57 gr also. As I've heard from many posts "if you've got a 3006 that won't shoot 165gr bullets well with 57 gr of IMR4350, you don't need a gunsmith, you need an exorcist".
Seriously - it just works and seems to in anybody's 3006. I've been playing a while with different powder/bullet/load combos and nothing does as well as that.

- T
 
I worked up to 58 grs with a 165 Nosler ballistic tip. Velocity in my rifle is a bit over 2900 in a 22" barrel. I tried using RL-22 but found it too slow... a case full of powder and 100 fps slower than 4350.
 
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