"Incendiary" Tracers

[fat tony]

^Just want to ask you AK, what is the political affiliation of these people who work to make this sort of legislation? Do they know anything about science, or are they just lawyers, or do you charge them an arm and a leg D I sure as heck would) to be a consultant. In my opinion, all of these laws are designed to rescind 'just a little more' liberty with every go around, and I get the impression these people think they are some priveliged social class and untouchable. Are my impressions completely wrong?

 

[AK]

In the fifteen years I've dealt with ERD inspectors, political affiliation has never come up in discussion. The folks that work there are surprisingly flexible and helpful when you don't come at them with a chip on your shoulder. They apply the law and regulations as they are written but are open to amendments and changes if you have a good case. All the inspectors I've dealt with have always been friendly, forthcoming, and understanding. Not the kind of people you expect when you hear "government worker".

I don't consult for them, though that would be nice. I am an explosives user and my dealings with them have been business related.

 

[fat tony]

Thanks that's good to know.

 

[Wendell]

Deja vu

Tracers are not illegal to possess under any Act. They're neither explosive nor fireworks. NRCAN just got busy making law by regulation and decided they won't allow them to be imported.

Not many years ago, instead of talking tracers, a thread like this would have been arguing about the legality/illegality of hollowpoint handgun ammunition.

 

[Garand]

AK, as a "government worker", I thank you.

 

[Suputin]

3) Frangible ammunition, while the police and military may use it, where do you see it for sale?,

All varmint bullets are "frangible". That is the entire point of how the work terminally. If we insist that "frangible" means compressed copper construction then the Barnes Varmint Grenades would definately fit the profile and they are available all over the place.

I bet the people who wrote this typically ####e law don't even have a clue what frangible means when applied to a bullet. And I would be seriously surprised if they went to the trouble to define what they think a frangible bullet is.

 

[Garand]

When I went to the CF Ammunition School the definition of frangible was "used against armoured targets in training,it disintigrates upon impact, made of bakelite & powdered lead;"

Now depending on the definition used at the time of classification, lays the answer. By going with the definition I learned in the seventies, powdered lead is now considered an enviornmental concern.

 

[glang1]

Clipped from Wikipedia.

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A frangible bullet is one that is designed to disintegrate into tiny particles upon impact to minimize their penetration for reasons of range safety, to limit environmental impact, or to limit the danger behind the intended target. Examples are the Glaser Safety Slug and the breaching round.

Frangible bullets will disintegrate upon contact with a surface harder than the bullet itself. Frangible bullets are often used by shooters engaging in close quarter combat training to avoid ricochets; targets are placed on steel backing plates that serve to completely fragment the bullet. Frangible bullets are typically made of non-toxic metals, and are frequently used on "green" ranges and outdoor ranges where lead abatement is a concern.
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Why on earth would such a bullet be prohibited??? Just goes to prove that bureaucrats have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to firearm & related laws. As far as I know, the Hornady VMAX bullet is "frangible", but they are widely available in Kanada.

 

[Garand]

Now depending on the definition used at the time of classification, lays the answer.

Missed that the first time, did you?

 

[woodchopper]

ah yes the definitions

Frangible

Armour piercing

going to be hard to nail those down exactly just get a few technical people in a room and then try to get the expert answer (one that they will all sign off on)

 

[Shrapnel]

Tracer composition is not an explosive, it is a pyrotechnic compound... Tracer have been around for almost 100 years in Canada... NRcan "experts" quite often know nothing about firearms, ammunition or pyrotechnics... Most I have met came from the manufacturing side of the commercial explosives field...

 

[Garand]

Tracer composition is not an explosive, it is a pyrotechnic compound... Tracer have been around for almost 100 years in Canada... NRcan "experts" quite often know nothing about firearms, ammunition or pyrotechnics... Most I have met came from the manufacturing side of the commercial explosives field...

Most of the ones that I have worked with over the years, have some form of degree in explosive engineering and you are correct, at times, initially, they know little of the application, but everyone I have worked with is a very quick study and open minded.

As I have mentioned previously, the government follows the UN testing, transportation and storage specifications in determining the Hazard Classification Code (HCC) of all dangerous goods. Bulk Tracer bullets (projectile only), when fitted with the pyrotechnic composition are classified as 1.4C.

In international trade, the composition of a product determines how it is classified. The classification determines how it is shipped and stored, this also determines the application of the regulations.

 

[theweatherman]

I came across a fellow with some pulled 7.62x54r green tip tracer bullets for sale.
He claims that these particular bullets, when loaded with a low temperature powder, will not ignite after leaving the barrel, but rather produce a large flash and a bunch of smoke when hitting a hard target (i.e. steel).

I personally have a hard time believing tracers would work in this way, but if they would, what would be the legality of such bullets?
Incendiary bullets/ammo are prohibited, while tracers are not. These bullets are not designed to be incendiary, but would they be prohibited if they worked as such?

Observing rounds will make a bunch of smoke hitting a hard target not sure about a flash, but I can't remember what color those bullets are supposed to be.