Incredible Stun Baton?

So fellas, sell any Batons to a couple of gang bangers from Ontario lately?

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...warmings/ar-BBzx0re?li=AA521o&ocid=spartanntp

Two Ottawa teens are facing charges following a pair of early morning swarmings involving stun batons, police say.
The first robbery happened around 2 a.m. Thursday when a male victim was approached by two other males as he was walking along Heron Road near the Bronson#Avenue overpass.
Both suspects were armed with batons that had a blue light on one end, according to police. They demanded the victim's wallet and phone, but there were no injuries.
Then, around 3:25 a.m., Ottawa police were called to a second robbery near#4000 Bridle Path. Two people had just left a bar when they were accosted by three suspects whose#faces were covered.
Police say the suspects demanded the victims hand over whatever they had on them, and a scuffle ensued.
One of the victims was kicked in the head and "tasered," according to police. The suspects ran away, and police arrested two of them nearby a short time later.
Police recovered a "baton stun gun" equipped with a flashlight when they arrested the suspects.
An 18-year-old Ottawa man has been charged with three counts of robbery, carrying a concealed weapon, two counts of possession of a prohibited device, and assault with a weapon, among other charges.
A 17-year-old male, also of Ottawa, has been charged with three counts of robbery, two counts of possession of a prohibited device,#assault with a weapon, and more.
Both suspects appeared in court Thursday, while a#third suspect remains at large.
Police are concerned that other incidents may have occurred that have not yet been reported. Investigators are urging#any other victims to come forward, as well as any witnesses that may have information.
 
seth said:
So fellas, sell any Batons to a couple of gang bangers from Ontario lately?

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...warmings/ar-BBzx0re?li=AA521o&ocid=spartanntp

Two Ottawa teens are facing charges following a pair of early morning swarmings involving stun batons, police say.
The first robbery happened around 2 a.m. Thursday when a male victim was approached by two other males as he was walking along Heron Road near the Bronson#Avenue overpass.
Both suspects were armed with batons that had a blue light on one end, according to police. They demanded the victim's wallet and phone, but there were no injuries.
Then, around 3:25 a.m., Ottawa police were called to a second robbery near#4000 Bridle Path. Two people had just left a bar when they were accosted by three suspects whose#faces were covered.
Police say the suspects demanded the victims hand over whatever they had on them, and a scuffle ensued.
One of the victims was kicked in the head and "tasered," according to police. The suspects ran away, and police arrested two of them nearby a short time later.
Police recovered a "baton stun gun" equipped with a flashlight when they arrested the suspects.
An 18-year-old Ottawa man has been charged with three counts of robbery, carrying a concealed weapon, two counts of possession of a prohibited device, and assault with a weapon, among other charges.
A 17-year-old male, also of Ottawa, has been charged with three counts of robbery, two counts of possession of a prohibited device,#assault with a weapon, and more.
Both suspects appeared in court Thursday, while a#third suspect remains at large.
Police are concerned that other incidents may have occurred that have not yet been reported. Investigators are urging#any other victims to come forward, as well as any witnesses that may have information.
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Uh-oh...
 
seth said:
So fellas, sell any Batons to a couple of gang bangers from Ontario lately?
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By the way, you don't actually expect them, or any vendor for that matter, to answer that question, do you?

This could be a problem for the vendor. I'm sure the police will want to know where these two little sh!t-rats got these things. If they bought them directly from a dealer, as opposed to getting some other way, I bet that dealer can expect a visit from the police. And possibly a major headache to follow.

I also wonder if this will affect the sales of these items? Or the legality of them? And if so, how will that affect those who already have them? Hopefully nothing comes of this, but if it does, then as usual, it only takes a few criminals to ruin for the rest of us law-abiders.
 
seth said:
So fellas, sell any Batons to a couple of gang bangers from Ontario lately?

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...warmings/ar-BBzx0re?li=AA521o&ocid=spartanntp

[...]
An 18-year-old Ottawa man has been charged with three counts of robbery, carrying a concealed weapon, two counts of possession of a prohibited device, and assault with a weapon, among other charges.
A 17-year-old male, also of Ottawa, has been charged with three counts of robbery, two counts of possession of a prohibited device,#assault with a weapon, and more.
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They would probably have been charged with the same charges had they used a baseball bat.

They're gonna plead guilty, I guarantee it. The charges of "possession of a prohibited device" is irrelevant compared to robbery and assault. Legally, this will prove diddly squat, and is about a thousand miles away from the OP's story.

Good story though.
 
VinnyQC said:
They would probably have been charged with the same charges had they used a baseball bat.

They're gonna plead guilty, I guarantee it. The charges of "possession of a prohibited device" is irrelevant compared to robbery and assault. Legally, this will prove diddly squat, and is about a thousand miles away from the OP's story.

Good story though.
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The "OP's story?" The OP was just asking when more of these would be available.
 
Does every car dealer get a visit from the police when someone crashes their car driving drunk, or texting, and injures someone?
 
Just searched CanLII and there is nothing for anything over 480mm There is one case of a sailor who bought some in Manila and mailed them back from the ship. They were however under 480mm and "could easily be concealed" Someone should email this guy as he is the expert Mr D.P. Dawson of Rassettica Testing Limited.
 
canadiantbone said:
I had mine confiscated & am in the process of taking the officers to court to get it back. I am attaching the emails that I sent and received from the officer (here in Abbotsford). Hope this helps out anyone else :

Hi Constable T,

I'm not sure if you received my previous emails ; so I will repeat what was sent in them . I know that you are aware that Constable Moore confiscated my stun baton , citing that it was a prohibited weapon. I explained to him that in the 2016 Martins Annual Criminal Code(Canada law book) that on page 183, section 84 , FORMER Prohibited weapons order Part 3 , number 6 STATES :

- 6 Any device that is designed to be capable of injuring, immobilizing or incapacitating a person or an animal by discharging an electrical charge produced by means of the amplification or accumulation of the electrical current generated by a battery, where the device is designed or altered so that the electrical charge may be discharged when the device is of a length of less than 480 mm, and any similar device..

Even with this information , Constable Moore insisted that I was wrong & he would advise you & let me know his findings. I then received a phone call from Cst. Moore citing that you had confirmed that the stun baton was indeed a prohibited weapon. I have since checked with the R.C.M.P. & again with the current criminal Code & find both of you incorrect. Since then I have contacted Legal counsel & have been advised that neither you or Constable Moore have filed a 5.2 with the Provincial court of Abbotsford. I am hoping that you can admit your mistake & return my baton (in good working order) to avoid me having to proceed with further legal action.


Thank you , T M cell

P.S. The links below are to the site that I purchased the baton & the on line version of the criminal code. I also supplied you a copy of the information in this email & the dimensions of the baton in your mail slot at the Abbotsford Police department..

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-462/FullText.html

https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/the-incredible-stun-baton/

https://www.canadaammo.com/product/detail/the-arc-angel-stun-cane/

His responce:

Hello Mr M,

On May 3rd, 2016 Cst Quaglia of the APD, a court expert with respect to non firearm prohibited weapons inspected the said weapon seized from you by Cst Moore on April 4th 2016. The seized weapon in question was a stun baton flashlight.

Cst Quaglia provided a detailed written report; as a result of that report which cited excertpts of Legislation from the Criminal Code of Canada and open source information, his expert opinion based on his training and knowledge of Canadian Law with respect to non firearm prohibited weapons backed by his Court appointed "expert" designation, Cst Quaglia has determined the stun baton flashlight a prohibited weapon by definition of the Criminal Code of Canada.

As you are most likely aware, anyone found in possession of a prohibited weapon in Canada is subject to arrest for several different criminal offences based on why it is in ones possession and why it was intended to be used or was used.

Based upon the findings of Cst Quaglia, the stun baton flashlight will not be returned to you. The prohibited weapon will be retained by the APD for training and educational purposes to educate other police officers in the effort to continue to keep and maintain our community safety commitment.

As per APD policy, I am not able to provide you with a copy of Cst Quaglia's report. If you should require a copy of that report you will need to apply for it through the Freedom Of Information Act (FOI). The APD front counter staff will be more than happy to assist you in that matter if required.

Thank you for your understanding.

With respect;

Cst C T
Abbotsford Police

Thanks for your fairly quick response,

but you still leave me with unanswered question. How do I get a copy of Cst Quaglia report ? Are you then going to put a stop to the importer of said devise ? If I go and purchase the stun/flashlight walking cane , is it also a prohibited devise? If I were to be in possession of a cattle prod , is that a prohibited device. It looks as though you are leaving me with no choice but to seek legal counsel on these matters & to proceed as needed.


Thanks, T

Hi T,

I answered your question with respect to obtaining a copy of the report, you can apply for it through the FOI. With respect to the putting a stop to importing the device, that is a question you will have to ask CBSA and other government entities. As far as the other devices you mentioned, that would need to be investigated should one be seized from anyone and again an expert opinion would need to be sought.

Please keep in mind that anything can be purchased on the internet from anywhere. The buyer of any item(s) must ensure that they conform with our Canadian laws and regulations if they are being brought into this country.

Cst T
Abbotsford Police
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This is all the retailers fault. And they should be manning up and paying for all legal fees for the poor op. And send him a new baton. They sold it to him. Stating that it's legal and you should not have any issues buying it.

Hope things work out for you.

Good luck.
 
ROMEO1 said:
This is all the retailers fault. And they should be manning up and paying for all legal fees for the poor op. And send him a new baton. They sold it to him. Stating that it's legal and you should not have any issues buying it.

Hope things work out for you.

Good luck.
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Uh, no. First off, according to the law it is legal. The dealer didn't mislead anyone, so they don't owe him any money for legal fees. It's actually the guys fault. His kid blabbed about it to a school teacher who called the police. Then this guy allowed the police to come into his house without a warrant and seize it. He should have told them to go pound salt, then called a lawyer for advice. Then none of this would have happened. Now that said, don't get me wrong, I do hope this guy gets his property back.

And by the way, he wasn't the OP.
 
Bad Lieutenant said:
Uh, no. First off, according to the law it is legal. The dealer didn't mislead anyone, so they don't owe him any money for legal fees. It's actually the guys fault. His kid blabbed about it to a school teacher who called the police. Then this guy allowed the police to come into his house without a warrant and seize it. He should have told them to go pound salt, then called a lawyer for advice. Then none of this would have happened. Now that said, don't get me wrong, I do hope this guy gets his property back.

And by the way, he wasn't the OP.
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I did not know this side of the story. Apologies. I wanted to buy one of these. Looked cool. But I'm not so sure now.
 
ROMEO1 said:
I did not know this side of the story. Apologies. I wanted to buy one of these. Looked cool. But I'm not so sure now.
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No problem. As of right now, you can legally purchase and own the ones that CA carries. They are legal because of their length. However, because stun-guns, aka tasers, (the other size ones), are on the prohibited list, and because this is Canada, they will get a police officer's attention very quickly. And since some cops don't know the laws that pertain to these devices very well, (as evidenced by the cop in this thread that seized a baton) you should be careful. It's unfortunate that it is that way, but better to be safe, than sorry.

Now that said, I'm pretty sure this incident with these two teenaged jackasses in Ottawa is going to bring some unwanted attention to these devices by the police, the government and the anti-everything-that-is-fun movement. I'd wait until the dust settles before buying one.
 
UPDATE : I went to court & the judge ordered that the baton be returned to me . That being said, the judge did warm me that any miss use by me would lead me to be charged. I also had to explain to the judge my intended purpose for it . Which I replied to as I just wanted one as a novelty and because it was a flashlight & I collect flashlights. The APD officer was not happy. That being said ....I will always now deny being in possession of anything. I now would rather be charged and have the item taken away & deal with the charge than just surrender any item.
 
canadiantbone said:
UPDATE : I went to court & the judge ordered that the baton be returned to me . That being said, the judge did warm me that any miss use by me would lead me to be charged. I also had to explain to the judge my intended purpose for it . Which I replied to as I just wanted one as a novelty and because it was a flashlight & I collect flashlights. The APD officer was not happy. That being said ....I will always now deny being in possession of anything. I now would rather be charged and have the item taken away & deal with the charge than just surrender any item.
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Good job! I would not have went through with all that for a 40$ item but I'm glad for you. On another note, you better go 1kmph less than speed limits and make sure you use your flashers from now on...
 
canadiantbone said:
UPDATE : I went to court & the judge ordered that the baton be returned to me . That being said, the judge did warm me that any miss use by me would lead me to be charged. I also had to explain to the judge my intended purpose for it . Which I replied to as I just wanted one as a novelty and because it was a flashlight & I collect flashlights. The APD officer was not happy. That being said ....I will always now deny being in possession of anything. I now would rather be charged and have the item taken away & deal with the charge than just surrender any item.
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God job!

Would have like to see the face of the APD officer. They usually don't bother showing up in court when they know they're on the wrong side.

I'll buy a baton in solidarity with you.
 
canadiantbone said:
UPDATE : I went to court & the judge ordered that the baton be returned to me . That being said, the judge did warm me that any miss use by me would lead me to be charged. I also had to explain to the judge my intended purpose for it . Which I replied to as I just wanted one as a novelty and because it was a flashlight & I collect flashlights. The APD officer was not happy. That being said ....I will always now deny being in possession of anything. I now would rather be charged and have the item taken away & deal with the charge than just surrender any item.
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Right on.
 
canadiantbone said:
UPDATE : I went to court & the judge ordered that the baton be returned to me . That being said, the judge did warm me that any miss use by me would lead me to be charged. I also had to explain to the judge my intended purpose for it . Which I replied to as I just wanted one as a novelty and because it was a flashlight & I collect flashlights. The APD officer was not happy. That being said ....I will always now deny being in possession of anything. I now would rather be charged and have the item taken away & deal with the charge than just surrender any item.
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Goodjob! Yes deny everything, don't let them in your house without a warrant... don't even open the door! Cops will lie/threaten you with charges to get their way or even stick you with false charges they know won't stick just to burden you financially.
 
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