India Re-Launching Global Tender for New-Generation Assault Rifle
- Thread starter Thomas D'Arcy McGee
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I'm guessing it generally keeps the dirtbags (generally from Pakistan) who are armed with AKs farther away. It's whack a mole at a distance. These types of rifles can usually use a scope too. The enemy also has G3s so that's part of it.
Still alive
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Yeah, I figured it was more a long range, terrain issue. The weight, load out and recoil issues will make it less suitable for CQB work though.
Well, they hung onto the .303 long after everyone else had moved on. Maybe they're smarter than the rest of the world.
Grizz
ThatM305Guy
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I'm deeply offended that you dont have the courtesy to stick with the PC "First nations" and would instead also opt for "red Indians" on this tolerant Canadian forum....
In other news, hooray for free speech! At least while it lasts! He wasnt attacking you, it wasn't really even racist...and least of all was it malicious. Actual racism exists, but this is not it...the only thing that gives words power, is whether or not a person gives a crap.
Did I read right that it wasn't just a x51 but a 5.56 that can be barrel swapped to x51?? Seems a bit pointlessly fancy.
EDIT: My bad....7.62x39, not x51
I knew the INSAS had some problems but i didn't know it was this bad still. The 7.62 nato requirement is weird too the Indian Army could easily adopt the tavor which is a readily available proven technology that is in use with special forces. Whatever I'm sure a certain german small arms manufacturer is going to end up with another lucrative contract in the near future ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you look at the geography of where Pakistan and India meet, only really Lahore and Amritsar are really close together, I could see a CQB battle in either city if those 2 mean to go at it. Aside from that if the tanks roll over I'm sure the order of battle for Pakistan and India is to use tactical nukes in order to stop the armor from reaching Delhi or Islamabad. Why have nukes if you're not going to use them to stop a rolling wave of steel? Air force of either country would be a complete wash in the first few hours to non existance of air assets for both countries in a few days, which means it would come down to an Iraq/Iran war type scenario but with both countries having the will to use nukes on the battlefield.
ThatM305Guy
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The Idian special forces use the tavor? Interesting....when did they start?
In late 2002, India signed an INR 880 million (about USD 17.7 million) deal with Israel Military Industries for 3,070 manufactured Tavor assault rifles to be issued to India's special forces personnel,[48] where its ergonomics, reliability in heat and sand might give them an edge at close-quarters and employment from inside vehicles. By 2005, IMI had supplied 350–400 Tavors to India's northern Special Frontier Force (SFF). These were subsequently declared to be "operationally unsatisfactory". The required changes have since been made, and tests in Israel during 2006 went well, clearing the contracted consignment for delivery. The Tavor has now entered operational service – even as India gears up for a larger competition that could feature a 9 mm MTAR-21 version.[49] Known as the Zittara, the rifle is manufactured in India by the Ordnance Factories Board for Indian service,[50] the new Tavors have a modified single-piece stock and new sights, as well as Turkish-made MKEK T-40 40 mm under-barrel grenade launchers.[49] 5,500 have been recently inducted and more rifles are being ordered.[51] A consignment of over 500 TAR-21 Tavor assault rifles and another 30 Galil sniper rifles worth over INR 150 million (USD 3.3 million) and INR 20 million respectively was delivered to the MARCOS (Marine Commandos) in December 2010.[52]
India's paramilitary and counter-insurgency Central Reserve Police Force CRPF ordered 12000 Micro Tavor (X95) rifles (designation X95), with the rifles entering service in early 2011. Following the use of the weapon by Indian forces fighting the insurgency in Kashmir, CRPF commanders have stated that the X95 is a more effective assault rifle than the AKM, due to its small size, power, longer range and lighter weight.[53]
In 2016, IWI announced that it was establishing a 49:51 joint venture with Punj Lloyd in India, in order manufacture rifle components in India.
From Wikipedia
ThatM305Guy
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Thanks!
Now moving on from all the butt hurt people and getting back on topic.
I am quite surprised that a major modern army (and despite what many think, the Indian army is quite modern) would move to a cartridge that everyone for the last 20 plus years has been obsolete. Maybe it has something to do with that other modern army that ended up in Irag and Afghanistan and the lesson learned there?
I am quite surprised that a major modern army (and despite what many think, the Indian army is quite modern) would move to a cartridge that everyone for the last 20 plus years has been obsolete. Maybe it has something to do with that other modern army that ended up in Irag and Afghanistan and the lesson learned there?
p.Rundle
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The problem with a state like India adopting small arms is the size their military may grow to and the budgetary concerns. In a perfect world where India isn't a developing state, the solution would be simple: 5.56 for general issue and then 7.62x51 for DMR use, and implement marksmen on a squad level where it's flat and open and on a platoon level where they aren't needed in high volume. But because they are probably unwilling to buy two new small arms, I'm willing to bet we'll see either a x51 general issue rifle that'll be weak against the AK in close distances (my understanding of India's situation is most terrorist attacks/conflicts are urban) or a 5.56 one that'll be seen as weak against Pakistan's G3's at range. My keyboard commando opinion is they should probably just go 5.56 in a better platform than the INSAS and issue some scopes for impromptu marksmen. Not a fix it all solution, but cheaper than any alternative I can think of.
The big goal should be dropping the INSAS ASAP.
The big goal should be dropping the INSAS ASAP.
ThatM305Guy
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Agreed. But then, Turkey also has opted for that cartridge as well. I personally dont think it will ever die.
To clarify, I have never thought the cartridge was obsolete. It has its place and is needed and needed more than it has been used to date.
ThatM305Guy
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Not that I enjoy war, but it would be very interesting to see the results of turkey vs a country that uses 5.56 or 7.62x39 as their main caliber. Because like you, i do still believe that 7.62NATO is a superior choice in many instances other than cqb
wars are not won with a choice of small arms A vs small arms B, but with the will to pursue it further than the enemy
The main complaint with the FAL when I were lad, was that it was awkwardly long. Nobody complained about the number of rounds carried or obsolescence. You could train infantry to use a similar rifle, preferably suited to people with shorter arms. Nothing personal about the shorter arms, just embracing diversity.
They should be dual wielding full-auto-only 7.62X51 drum fed bullpups with mounted semiauto grenade lanchers whose triggers share the rifles trigger guard and can be fired simultaneously with the rifles. Anyone who disagrees is racist.
