Interest in 100 yard .22LR challenge?
- Thread starter grauhanen
- Start date
Thanks for the kind words.
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There are four basic or essential things that are required for good results at 100.
First, a good rifle/barrel. My Anschutz is not special. Its barrel is likely average-for-Anschutz. There is no magic make of rifle that will be guaranteed to shoot your ammo well.
Second, with general aiming skills usually being equal, the shooter must know how to ensure as much as possible that each shot is made as consistently as possible. In other words, the same "hold" (or absence of one) together with the same optimal rifle/rest/bipod and rear bag positioning or placement.
Third, the shooter must know when or when not to shoot. With .22LR a distance of 100 yards is near the maximum distance at which this round can shoot with anything approaching reliable precision. As a result, it's vital to understand that even the slightest of air movement between shooter and target can have an impact on results downrange.
In this regard, even a one mph difference in crosswind between shots is enough to move a bullet to drift about 0.37 inches. The thing is a one mph velocity change often can't be detected on the skin or on tree leaves, rising smoke etc.. In other words, without wind flags, most shooters will remain unaware that the wind has changed.
This means for best results when shooting at 100 yards some means of detecting changes in wind must be used. One flag is not enough. Reading wind flags is a skill that can be mastered. With skillful use of wind flags, it is possible to shoot effectively in conditions where there is wind. I don't have such skills, but I use flags to tell me when there is some wind or air movement. When there is, I don't shoot. When the flags tell me there is no or very, very little detectable wind, I do.
Fourth, the ammo must be good. It's not reasonable to buy randomly a certain make or variety of ammo and expect very good results. Some batches or lots of Center X or Midas +, for example, will shoot better than others. What's very good in one rifle may not be as good in another. You need to test to produce enough data to reliably determine what works best. Each of the major .22LR match ammo makers will produce lots that shoot very well.
And with regard to the ammo, it must be emphasized that no rifle will outshoot the ammo it's given. No Anschutz will make mediocre ammo shoot well. No Vudoo or RimX will do that either. There's no rifle that can make average ammo shoot like it's very good ammo.
____________________________
There are four basic or essential things that are required for good results at 100.
First, a good rifle/barrel. My Anschutz is not special. Its barrel is likely average-for-Anschutz. There is no magic make of rifle that will be guaranteed to shoot your ammo well.
Second, with general aiming skills usually being equal, the shooter must know how to ensure as much as possible that each shot is made as consistently as possible. In other words, the same "hold" (or absence of one) together with the same optimal rifle/rest/bipod and rear bag positioning or placement.
Third, the shooter must know when or when not to shoot. With .22LR a distance of 100 yards is near the maximum distance at which this round can shoot with anything approaching reliable precision. As a result, it's vital to understand that even the slightest of air movement between shooter and target can have an impact on results downrange.
In this regard, even a one mph difference in crosswind between shots is enough to move a bullet to drift about 0.37 inches. The thing is a one mph velocity change often can't be detected on the skin or on tree leaves, rising smoke etc.. In other words, without wind flags, most shooters will remain unaware that the wind has changed.
This means for best results when shooting at 100 yards some means of detecting changes in wind must be used. One flag is not enough. Reading wind flags is a skill that can be mastered. With skillful use of wind flags, it is possible to shoot effectively in conditions where there is wind. I don't have such skills, but I use flags to tell me when there is some wind or air movement. When there is, I don't shoot. When the flags tell me there is no or very, very little detectable wind, I do.
Fourth, the ammo must be good. It's not reasonable to buy randomly a certain make or variety of ammo and expect very good results. Some batches or lots of Center X or Midas +, for example, will shoot better than others. What's very good in one rifle may not be as good in another. You need to test to produce enough data to reliably determine what works best. Each of the major .22LR match ammo makers will produce lots that shoot very well.
And with regard to the ammo, it must be emphasized that no rifle will outshoot the ammo it's given. No Anschutz will make mediocre ammo shoot well. No Vudoo or RimX will do that either. There's no rifle that can make average ammo shoot like it's very good ammo.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Nice shooting.
I'd love to make another attempt, but the constant fatigue is taking a toll on me. Oh the joy's of being sick.
I'd love to make another attempt, but the constant fatigue is taking a toll on me. Oh the joy's of being sick.
At our 100/200 Metre Rimfire Match on August 21, My averages for Unlimited were 1.315 and 1.251 with the Remington 40XB.
In hunting rifle, 1.296 and 1.386 with the Anschutz 1710.
At 200 Metres with the Anschutz 1710, for 20 rounds, all were on the paper but the first shot would have been better had I held on the "X".
The measurements werte 6.456, 4.567 and 4.21".
Wind was switching but and the flags were basically green for the first two targets but they all went orange between 2 & 3.
However, the lady winning the unlimited with a score of 598 - 38X, recorded groups of .913, .844 and .687 for and average of .815 on her first target.
Her second target was1.264, 1,381 and .669 averaged 1.105. She was shooting an Anschutz.
In hunting rifle, 1.296 and 1.386 with the Anschutz 1710.
At 200 Metres with the Anschutz 1710, for 20 rounds, all were on the paper but the first shot would have been better had I held on the "X".
The measurements werte 6.456, 4.567 and 4.21".
Wind was switching but and the flags were basically green for the first two targets but they all went orange between 2 & 3.
However, the lady winning the unlimited with a score of 598 - 38X, recorded groups of .913, .844 and .687 for and average of .815 on her first target.
Her second target was1.264, 1,381 and .669 averaged 1.105. She was shooting an Anschutz.
that lesson on cleaning the carbon ring from inside the chamber was exactly what i needed. My cz455 has at least 1k rnds through it without touching that carbon ring.
Last time out i was getting over 3in groups with eley.
this time. silverdale 100m. Early morning, nice and cool conditions. First groups with eley sport were 1.42, 1.417 and 1.574. Shooting off a front sand bag shooting rest and rear squeeze bag. Tested shooting off bipod and poi and groups were similar, although required a bit more concentration to avoid shifting.
At 1130 i tried Lapua polar biathlon. Hot, bright sunshine from top left into face, required a wide brim tilley hat. After shooting all morning with rws and sk riflr match. Was difficult to focus, fuzzy eyes after repeated 10rnd groups. Kept getting a stray pulled shot on the lapua 2.73, 2.67, 3.12.
frustrating but fun.
Hats off to you guys that can maintain focus for multiple targets.
Last time out i was getting over 3in groups with eley.
this time. silverdale 100m. Early morning, nice and cool conditions. First groups with eley sport were 1.42, 1.417 and 1.574. Shooting off a front sand bag shooting rest and rear squeeze bag. Tested shooting off bipod and poi and groups were similar, although required a bit more concentration to avoid shifting.
At 1130 i tried Lapua polar biathlon. Hot, bright sunshine from top left into face, required a wide brim tilley hat. After shooting all morning with rws and sk riflr match. Was difficult to focus, fuzzy eyes after repeated 10rnd groups. Kept getting a stray pulled shot on the lapua 2.73, 2.67, 3.12.
frustrating but fun.
Hats off to you guys that can maintain focus for multiple targets.
I have to comment, the vertical in your targets looks pretty good to me. At 100 yards, such a spread is inescapable and is the product of muzzle velocity variation, 10fps spread can account for ~1/4". You'll find ES values for 10-shot groups in the range of 30-50fps for most lots of ammo. I have seen up to 80fps ES with the BBM ammo I have, which is a hunting grade ammo made by RWS. Work on the wind and be happy that ammo appears to have a pretty consistent MV, it won't be easy to find a lot that is tighter in that regard.
Ammo can be a fickle mistress, not pretty but it might look that way
This morning it was sunny and very calm so I went to the range to shoot some ammo I've had for a few years. I took some Polar Biathlon I got in 2019. Back then the PB didn't consistently procuce the results I sought and I thought that perhaps my skills were not sufficiently reliable. I had forgotten about the PB ammo. I also had two lots of SK Rifle Match.
I fouled my bore with SK+ and, to check the POI with the faster Polar Biathlon ammo, I finished with five rounds of it. The five were almost exactly on POA, giving a sub-.4" ctc group at 100, a promising sign.
When I shot the first ten-shot group, I thought things were looking very promising indeed. The group, shown below, was .798" outside-to-outside. Converted to testing facility units of measurement, it's 20.3mm outside-to-outside size would be cause for joy at a testing facility.
As I continued, I soon remembered why I still had some of this ammo. It gives some good groups, but it has fliers every so often, enough to make the ammo unreliable. The second group was very promising until I took the eighth shot, the low stray on the top right bull below on the target on the left. The other targets with the same ammo are to the right.
I shot two boxes of the Polar Biathlon ammo. The third target above had its three ten-shot groups averaging .837". Overall, however, the ten ten-shot groups averaged 1.136".
The same thing can happen with any ammo. Even SK Rifle Match can seduce with some extraordinarily attractive results. The smallest ten-shot group I had today was with SK RM at .550". At 19.3mm outside-to-outside, there would again be cause for joy at a testing facility.
But put in perspective with its overall behaviour SK RM ammo is at best fickle. See the entire target below. It averaged 1.228". In all, I shot ten ten-shot groups with this lot of SK RM. The groups averaged 1.333".
A different lot of SK RM wasn't much better. For the first time, however, I had a target (middle, below) that had three groups with a .905" average. It was not repeatable, with the ten ten-shot groups averaging 1.210".
Match ammo can be like a fickle mistress. It can tempt with alluring appearances and tease with the seductive appeal of some extraordinary results. Shooters must be careful not to be led astray by a few tantalizing outcomes.
Never be swayed by the good looks of one or a couple good groups. When an ammo shows you both small and large groups, don't let yourself believe that the best groups are truly representative of what the ammo will do.
A good lot of match ammo will have strays, those errant shots that can spoil an otherwise good result by increasing group size by a little. A bad lot of ammo may produce some very enticing, small groups, but when they have strays, they will be far from home.
This morning it was sunny and very calm so I went to the range to shoot some ammo I've had for a few years. I took some Polar Biathlon I got in 2019. Back then the PB didn't consistently procuce the results I sought and I thought that perhaps my skills were not sufficiently reliable. I had forgotten about the PB ammo. I also had two lots of SK Rifle Match.
I fouled my bore with SK+ and, to check the POI with the faster Polar Biathlon ammo, I finished with five rounds of it. The five were almost exactly on POA, giving a sub-.4" ctc group at 100, a promising sign.
When I shot the first ten-shot group, I thought things were looking very promising indeed. The group, shown below, was .798" outside-to-outside. Converted to testing facility units of measurement, it's 20.3mm outside-to-outside size would be cause for joy at a testing facility.
As I continued, I soon remembered why I still had some of this ammo. It gives some good groups, but it has fliers every so often, enough to make the ammo unreliable. The second group was very promising until I took the eighth shot, the low stray on the top right bull below on the target on the left. The other targets with the same ammo are to the right.
I shot two boxes of the Polar Biathlon ammo. The third target above had its three ten-shot groups averaging .837". Overall, however, the ten ten-shot groups averaged 1.136".
The same thing can happen with any ammo. Even SK Rifle Match can seduce with some extraordinarily attractive results. The smallest ten-shot group I had today was with SK RM at .550". At 19.3mm outside-to-outside, there would again be cause for joy at a testing facility.
But put in perspective with its overall behaviour SK RM ammo is at best fickle. See the entire target below. It averaged 1.228". In all, I shot ten ten-shot groups with this lot of SK RM. The groups averaged 1.333".
A different lot of SK RM wasn't much better. For the first time, however, I had a target (middle, below) that had three groups with a .905" average. It was not repeatable, with the ten ten-shot groups averaging 1.210".
Match ammo can be like a fickle mistress. It can tempt with alluring appearances and tease with the seductive appeal of some extraordinary results. Shooters must be careful not to be led astray by a few tantalizing outcomes.
Never be swayed by the good looks of one or a couple good groups. When an ammo shows you both small and large groups, don't let yourself believe that the best groups are truly representative of what the ammo will do.
A good lot of match ammo will have strays, those errant shots that can spoil an otherwise good result by increasing group size by a little. A bad lot of ammo may produce some very enticing, small groups, but when they have strays, they will be far from home.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
All submissions list the ammo used. Some not as obivious.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Why are 10 shot groups soo challenging? I attempted a submission after shooting a 0.604" CTC 5 shot group at 100.
But had 2 shots per target have a mind of its own.
But had 2 shots per target have a mind of its own.
Having done it last year and passed the torch this year, showing the entry number on results page, it is no great effort to toggle back and forth.
Of course much of the ammo used is from specific lots that are no longer available and of my four rifles, there are three or four different lots. Mostly Remington Eley Match and Eley Biathlon so hat will not tell you much.
There are currently 25 shooters registered (some repeats) and 15 different varieties of ammo.
Ammunition that had repeats but by different shooters was Midas +, SK Standard Plus, CenterX and Eley Team . . . hardly a ringing endorsement.
My procedure when coming to the site is to check for new entries in the competition challenge. Of course, of the ammunition used, once read it is promptly stored in some far off compartment to be forgot.
Although there are only four categories to be added to the list there were time when only two were recalled, with luck three and in the category of miracles . . . FOUR!
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Good ammo is hard to find. And that makes lot testing even more difficult.
The specific brand or lot that shoots well in someone's rifle may not necessarily shoot very well in another rifle.
So knowing what ammo was used is not very useful information. One still has to do their own searching and testing.
That, and I am not about to use my best Tenex for online giggles.
The specific brand or lot that shoots well in someone's rifle may not necessarily shoot very well in another rifle.
So knowing what ammo was used is not very useful information. One still has to do their own searching and testing.
That, and I am not about to use my best Tenex for online giggles.
- Location
- Okanagan Valley B.C.
Hey Okay , check sub.# 71 page 8 .
Shows the difference in my 5 shot 0.81 & 10 shot 1.51 groups.
I find stamina is key ... skwerl
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Thanks, its def a challenge, esp here where it's always windy. But its nice to know my 10/22 is capable of shooting better.
Been talking to the F class shooters from another club to purchase some ammo for a sampler. As I see them shoot various type of SK ammo and not just match stuff.
I can second grauhanen's great writing on the rifle, ammo and shooter him/herself.
I have literally tried many 22lr rifles with many different match grade ammos, I have not yet find a single good recipe so far. Sometimes a good barrel shoots average ammo well, sometimes it doesn't. I guess that's the fun part of the rimfire.
I have shot and own/owned the following rifles/actions/barrels:
Ruger Precision Rimfire
CZ 457
Tikka T1x
Vudoo three-60 barrelled action
RimX action with PVA barrel
and with the combinations of the following ammos:
cci mini-mag
cci sv
sk long range
sk rilfe match
sk standard+
lapua center-x
lapua midas+
lapua x-act
eley sports
eley team
eley tenex
I have literally tried many 22lr rifles with many different match grade ammos, I have not yet find a single good recipe so far. Sometimes a good barrel shoots average ammo well, sometimes it doesn't. I guess that's the fun part of the rimfire.
I have shot and own/owned the following rifles/actions/barrels:
Ruger Precision Rimfire
CZ 457
Tikka T1x
Vudoo three-60 barrelled action
RimX action with PVA barrel
and with the combinations of the following ammos:
cci mini-mag
cci sv
sk long range
sk rilfe match
sk standard+
lapua center-x
lapua midas+
lapua x-act
eley sports
eley team
eley tenex
