Ditto... and I will be on a CFO approved range.
Interesting Conversation with CFC
- Thread starter sully015
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Ditto... and I will be on a CFO approved range.
Genius. You’ve opened my mind sir!
I think when faced with what must at times seem like stupid questions from the hand wringing gun owners amongst us, the CFC/CFO staff take the opportunity to mind-f***.
They give out information like this and then log into CGN to see how soon a thread will be started and how long it'll go on for.
They probably have a pool of some sort organized.... Winner gets to knock off early on Friday.
They give out information like this and then log into CGN to see how soon a thread will be started and how long it'll go on for.
They probably have a pool of some sort organized.... Winner gets to knock off early on Friday.
Tragic mistake: You go to the range with the intention of target shooting, and say "Oh look, a competition!".
Result: 2 years in pokey with Mister Big.
I must call the CFC and ask if it it legal to shoot 9mm Luger in a 9mm Parabellum pistol. I bet it isn't.
Result: 2 years in pokey with Mister Big.
I must call the CFC and ask if it it legal to shoot 9mm Luger in a 9mm Parabellum pistol. I bet it isn't.
The last time I called in for a STATT, I was asking if I could pick up my gun at the post office and go straight to a range, since mt LTATT says I can transport to ranges.
The Alberta CFO rep, told me I should just be safe and get the STATT from Post Office to home, so there is paper trail of me getting my gun back.
The kicker, when I called into the CFC, I was transferred to my provincial CFO... It was answered by another rep in Miramichi. I grew up in that city, my mother worked there and friends and family still work there.
The Alberta CFO rep, told me I should just be safe and get the STATT from Post Office to home, so there is paper trail of me getting my gun back.
The kicker, when I called into the CFC, I was transferred to my provincial CFO... It was answered by another rep in Miramichi. I grew up in that city, my mother worked there and friends and family still work there.
It actually does make mention of target shooting AND competitions.
2003, c. 8, s. 16(3)
6. Subsection 19(2) of the Act is replaced by the following:
Target practice or competition
(1.1) In the case of an authorization to transport issued for a reason referred to in paragraph (1)(a) within the province where the holder of the authorization resides, the specified places must include all shooting clubs and shooting ranges that are approved under section 29 and that are located in that province.
1. Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited handguns (12(6.1)) of
the Firearms Act) possessed for the purpose of target practice to and from all
shooting clubs and ranges approved under section 29 of the Firearms Act
Notes:
All target shooters who presently hold a long-term ATT (LT-ATT) for the purpose of target shooting will have this condition automatically added electronically to their licence on September 2. This also applies to holders of LT-ATTs who have an approved “private range”.
The condition allows the licencee to transport their own firearms to/ from an approved shooting club/ shooting range.
Individuals who have acquired a restricted firearm (or prohibited handgun) for the purpose of target shooting, but who are not presently LT-ATT holders, and who do not presently belong to an approved shooting club in Ontario, will not have this condition automatically added on September 2. This condition (as well as all of the other 5 conditions) will be added upon:
Renewal of their licence;
Acquisition of a subsequent restricted firearm or prohibited handgun for the purposes of target shooting; or
If they call requesting for this condition to be added or to request an ATT to go anywhere permitted by law.
Approved shooting ranges are privately operated by approved shooting clubs. The executive of such clubs continues to have the independent authority to determine who will be permitted access to their facility, to determine who will be allowed to bring and use firearms at their facility, and to determine the terms of facility guest use generally. Operators of approved shooting ranges in Ontario continue to be responsible for ensuring that all users of the range are sufficiently proficient in the safe handling and use of firearms, and that the conditions of the particular facility’s Range Approval are followed by all members and guests.
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Confuse them more, ask about 9 x 19 mm.
That reminds me of the old joke about hockey - I went to fight once and a hockey game broke out, only in this scenario you could always tell the judge, your honour, I went to a target range and a competition broke out.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Not sure what prompted you to have this conversation with the CFC, but gun owners would do themselves a big favour by not engaging in such fallacious conversations with the CFC. Asking the CFC call center for legal opinions on the criminal code and firearms act is like asking the Walmart greeter about Corporate tax law.
Flooding them with LTATTs requests, whether you need one or not, simply justifies their salaries, and ties up the phone lines for other legitimate business, like people trying to get a license issued. ITs best to talk to the CFC as little as humanly possible.
Given the choice, I would take the collective wisdom of gun nuts over government agents 100% of the time. The government agents can't even give you consistent answer about how they will act upon the law, let alone interpret what the law actually says.
Glad you were able to come to that conclusion on your own. Knowing the CFC's position on something is usually amusing, but rarely consistent with either the law or how it will be enforced on the street with your local Law Enforcement officers, who typically don't give two schitts about ATTs. If you have a license, you probably aren't the droids they are looking for.
You shouldn't be reading C-42. C-42 was an act that amended the Firearms Act. C42 does not stand on its own. You should be reading the current and in force version of the firearms act, which does make mention of target shooting and competition. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/page-4.html#h-11
In all other places in the Firearms Act where section 19, 19(1), or 19(1)(A) are mentioned, no further distinction is made between practice and competition. It is a distinction without a meaningful difference, and for all intents and purposes under the law, they are the same.
The only way an ATT issued for the purposes of practice would NOT include competition, is if for some reason the CFO specifically noted on YOUR ATT that competition was not included.
Most of what you quoted isn't even the act itself, but is some non-legal marketing material published with the bill. In any event, as I said, C-42 was an amender, not a standalone bill. Read the Firearms Act.
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Now thats funny.
+1 I damn near quoted it in my sig. Still might, that's gold...
I was joking - but if you were charged with a criminal offence the benefit of the doubt on the interpretation of a sentence on a piece of paper authorizing you to commit what would otherwise be a crime would go to the benefit of the accused.
This is why so much of our firearms law is garbage - what is a variant of a prohibited firearm, etc. etc..
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
You are correct about benefit of the doubt going to the accused, however you are incorrect as to there being any doubt.
With respect to any ATT issued automatically as license conditions per S19(1) of the Firearms Act, Section 19(1.1) says:
Your ATT might be ambiguous (Personally I don't think it is), but the law that guides the issuance of your ATT is quite clear. Unless expressly stating otherwise, your ATT is valid to all ranges in the province of your residence only.
Neither
The law has the answers you seek. The problem is most people want someone else to tell them what to do so they can rationalize that they are not responsible for their actions.
If you have C-42 special conditions you can take your restriceds to any section 29 range in your province of residence at any time for any reason you please.
Shawn
You are mixing up two different things
C-42 is province of residence only. You wanted more than one province.
You can go to any range in your home province for any reason you want at any time you want, including competition.
Shawn
No its not. The fact that C-42 does not set limits makes it legal for you to do it.
They have no authority to make you apply for an ATT that is already covered by the conditions attached to your RPAL
Shawn
