Raw accuracy isn’t the only required data for match shooters. The time factor has to be included to make the end result useful to prs style competitors. Good enough to hit the target and faster than a bolt wins.
Intro Rimfire precision rifle 22lr query
- Thread starter springfield armoury
- Start date
Raw accuracy isn’t the only required data for match shooters. The time factor has to be included to make the end result useful to prs style competitors. Good enough to hit the target and faster than a bolt wins.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If the scores of the matches don't tell the tale.... I guess nothing really will. Can't think of anything more objective then the results from any event????
Run whatever gear works for you.... the results will sort things out without further input from anyone.
But then I come from a time where they didn't give out 'participation medals'
Jerry
Run whatever gear works for you.... the results will sort things out without further input from anyone.
But then I come from a time where they didn't give out 'participation medals'
Jerry
I would like to know as well. I at that stage to either getting/build up a bolt or a semi. IE indecisive lol
It's interesting to hear someone else thinking what I have been. I've been running a 10/22 pattern rifle to great success for the last 2 yrs of ORPS. I'm shooting my first long range match next month with targets out to 350yards. I was conflicted on whether or not to run my ORPS rig or to get into a bolt action platform. I've since purchased a Ruger American Rimfire Long Range Target with plans to run it in Production class in NRS. I have less interest in shooting groups as I have making hits and plan on running the 2 against each other out to 350 yards in the next couple of weeks.
Now here is the kicker to that test idea, and why I think Jerry is on to something when he says lets let the match points prove whats better overall: the rifles are inherently different, and my results will be completely different than anyone else. So all I will be proving is that one of my rifles is better than the other. You could have the opposite verdict in your own "bolt vs semi" test because of how much even identical firearms vary in terms of accuracy (read up on the RPR accuracy lottery). We would really need a number of people to run a similar test to get any real idea of which has the advantage so to speak.
Regardless of results, I will be running the Ruger in the Long Range Match as I want to stay in production and try something different. I shoot open in ORPS and would do the same in CRPS.
Very interesting topic gents.
Some of you guys are missing the point.
We all get that there is a speed advantage with a semi. That is not up for debate.
We all get that speed advantage provides more time to aim and break a clean shot... Again that is not up for debate.
What is lacking is the un-varnished clinical reality of the beast at longer ranges for a 22LR. Obviously no 1022 is going to be as accurate at 300 yards as a CZ452, but by how much?
Readers like me would like some real data.
My side by side test proposal strips out shooter skill and situational conditions. I'm looking to see how these tricked out bragged up rifles actually do in terms of accuracy at long ranges.
To be honest and transparent I am very skeptical and the more evasive and deflective Gerry is to this point, the more I fear he is playing to emotion and not fact.
How some guys do in some matches is just not the point.
Heck 40 years ago, I hit a pheasant in the head from 300 yards with my 1022, maybe it was a lucky shot, maybe they are what Gerry says they are. Lets see some side by side long range targets.
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If you want the data, go out and get it. Can't expect everyone to hand everything to you.
Comparing my rifles would only tell you about my rifles and the ammunition I shot in them. There are bolt guns that don't shoot anywhere near as well as they should and some semi's that exceed expectations. I guess its nice to see a sample size of 1 but it won't really tell you anything.
Yes a bolt should be and usually is more accurate than a semi but not always. Depends on so many factors and every rifle is different so even if I can show you my results it doesn't mean you'll see the same thing.
I don't have a nice bolt 22 but I do have a few nice semi's.
If you buy a semi will it shoot like a bolt gun? ... who knows, maybe not
If you buy a bolt gun will it? Probably but who knows.
This style of shooting there are trade offs and only you can decide which is more important. Personally, the way things currently are, I can see how a semi is advantageous if it shoots well enough and I believe some certainly can. Usually it isn't the gun....
Dlask DAR 22 w/12.5" barrel at 50 yards, 10 shot groups on a calm day.
Shoots CCI SV at 1060 ish
Might be more consistent at longer ranges with better ammo but CCI is good enough for me. I can hit a 12" plate at 300 more often than not, wind depending lol.
Comparing my rifles would only tell you about my rifles and the ammunition I shot in them. There are bolt guns that don't shoot anywhere near as well as they should and some semi's that exceed expectations. I guess its nice to see a sample size of 1 but it won't really tell you anything.
Yes a bolt should be and usually is more accurate than a semi but not always. Depends on so many factors and every rifle is different so even if I can show you my results it doesn't mean you'll see the same thing.
I don't have a nice bolt 22 but I do have a few nice semi's.
If you buy a semi will it shoot like a bolt gun? ... who knows, maybe not
If you buy a bolt gun will it? Probably but who knows.
This style of shooting there are trade offs and only you can decide which is more important. Personally, the way things currently are, I can see how a semi is advantageous if it shoots well enough and I believe some certainly can. Usually it isn't the gun....
Dlask DAR 22 w/12.5" barrel at 50 yards, 10 shot groups on a calm day.
Shoots CCI SV at 1060 ish
Might be more consistent at longer ranges with better ammo but CCI is good enough for me. I can hit a 12" plate at 300 more often than not, wind depending lol.
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No they are not, as stated they are 50 yard. I could go get you my Labradar data if you like but I'm sure you will just argue for the sake of.
I don't shoot groups at 300 with a 22, just steel and load development for centerfire. Obviously wind plays a big factor at range and its usually windy here. I shoot groups closer to lessen the wind effects and chronograph so I have data. Good enough for me. I'm not here trying to impress anyone, only explaining that a semi can be accurate, although many may not be.
Just giving my experience, take it or leave it. You are the one asking everyone for help then arguing against whatever presented.
As stated before, If you want the data, go out and get it. Can't expect everyone to hand everything to you.
Go out this week and shoot some groups at 300 and post em, start a 300 yard rimfire group thread.
I don't shoot groups at 300 with a 22, just steel and load development for centerfire. Obviously wind plays a big factor at range and its usually windy here. I shoot groups closer to lessen the wind effects and chronograph so I have data. Good enough for me. I'm not here trying to impress anyone, only explaining that a semi can be accurate, although many may not be.
Just giving my experience, take it or leave it. You are the one asking everyone for help then arguing against whatever presented.
As stated before, If you want the data, go out and get it. Can't expect everyone to hand everything to you.
Go out this week and shoot some groups at 300 and post em, start a 300 yard rimfire group thread.
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Impressive performance at 50 with CCI SV. What does it do at 100yds?
You are the one obsessed about whether a semi is as benchrest accurate as a bolt. Like being obsessed about a car’s acceleration, without considering cornering. Get off your wallet and tell us. Most of us don’t care enough about rimfire bench rest accuracy to spend the time and $$ doing your testing for you. The silhouette guys don’t use semis. Jerry does very well competing with a semi. I doubt it’s because he is far more capable than all the shooters that run bolts. No shade on Jerry, but other guys shoot well too.
First off.. I'm not obsessed... I'm simply interested in specific factual support of broad and vague performance claims. Not calling anyone a liar, just show us some comparative performance at long range.
I don't want the sizzle, I want the steak.
Guys often get passionate about their new shiny and make exaggerated claims about the performance to justify the money spent to get it. More often than not, once the honey moon is over it's for sale on EE.
Why on earth would I need to get off my wallet only to make the same mistake?
This is not about Jerry's ability to shoot. It's about us all understanding the reality of long range accuracy degradation as a result of the semi auto actuation.
Scourge18a posted some nice Labradar results, but I don't know if those are cherry picked or typical, and the chronograph will not display how the semi auto may have deformed the bullets when cycling and what effect that may have on long range accuracy. The groups he posted aren't bad, but they don't blow my skirt up. Unfortunately he doesn't shoot 300 yard groups. I'm quite the opposite and don't bother to shoot 50 yard groups.
I feel like you guys read me as antagonistic, but i'm not... I'm truly interested in such information as that will either support or negate my getting off my wallet.
Heck, I'll even buy the barrel and trigger from Jerry!
I don't want the sizzle, I want the steak.
Guys often get passionate about their new shiny and make exaggerated claims about the performance to justify the money spent to get it. More often than not, once the honey moon is over it's for sale on EE.
Why on earth would I need to get off my wallet only to make the same mistake?
This is not about Jerry's ability to shoot. It's about us all understanding the reality of long range accuracy degradation as a result of the semi auto actuation.
Scourge18a posted some nice Labradar results, but I don't know if those are cherry picked or typical, and the chronograph will not display how the semi auto may have deformed the bullets when cycling and what effect that may have on long range accuracy. The groups he posted aren't bad, but they don't blow my skirt up. Unfortunately he doesn't shoot 300 yard groups. I'm quite the opposite and don't bother to shoot 50 yard groups.
I feel like you guys read me as antagonistic, but i'm not... I'm truly interested in such information as that will either support or negate my getting off my wallet.
Heck, I'll even buy the barrel and trigger from Jerry!
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
https://practiscore.com/results/html/34281b30-d2a2-41b6-87ef-c08539eaa79a?page=stage5-combined
funny how no one wants to look at the scores... this was from Kamloops 2019 CRPS match. This was the ELR and handgun stage.
Aaron and I shared my rifle. There were only 3rds on the furthest target put there by 1 shooter.
Wasn't me, I dropped the last shot on the 2nd to last target... and that ended my run.... but happy with my score.
the stage was out of 24... 9 with a pistol/ 15 with the rifle.
I had a theory, put my money into building test rifles and proved what I had to prove and have enjoyed success. If there are other ideas, put them to the test and see how they fair against peer gear.
If you dont accept what others are suggesting, then prove it yourself.... or not. Good either way. Success in this game is about solving a number of problems.
Jerry
funny how no one wants to look at the scores... this was from Kamloops 2019 CRPS match. This was the ELR and handgun stage.
Aaron and I shared my rifle. There were only 3rds on the furthest target put there by 1 shooter.
Wasn't me, I dropped the last shot on the 2nd to last target... and that ended my run.... but happy with my score.
the stage was out of 24... 9 with a pistol/ 15 with the rifle.
I had a theory, put my money into building test rifles and proved what I had to prove and have enjoyed success. If there are other ideas, put them to the test and see how they fair against peer gear.
If you dont accept what others are suggesting, then prove it yourself.... or not. Good either way. Success in this game is about solving a number of problems.
Jerry
The scores are meaningless Gerry. I don't understand why you keep avoiding long range accuracy clarification.
The only thing that matters is how a tweaked 1022 actually shoots at extended ranges over a liberal round count.
That way we can make an educated decision with realistic expectations.
The scores only show how a shooter of unknown skill performed against other shooters of unknown skill.
The only thing that matters is how a tweaked 1022 actually shoots at extended ranges over a liberal round count.
That way we can make an educated decision with realistic expectations.
The scores only show how a shooter of unknown skill performed against other shooters of unknown skill.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Well, that was good for a smile.... I guess we are playing for the participation award afterall
Jerry
Jerry
How accurate is a bolt at extended ranges? Maybe Maple57 can run a test for us using a bolt and a semi-auto? Send 50 rounds of a bunch of brands out to 350m from each type of action, and report back on your findings. I am curious why you are so worked up about this. The facts seem to show that shooters with lots of trigger time can effectively podium with semi-autos in matches that range from 30-425 meters. And shooters with lots of trigger time with bolt actions can also podium at the same type of events. Ammo selection for your rifle probably matters more than whether or not it's a bolt versus a semi-auto, particularly at extended ranges.
I opted for a hopped up 10/22, not for their inherit accuracy but for the positional shooting advantages (once I get into position, I don't have to break that position to run the bolt).
I opted for a hopped up 10/22, not for their inherit accuracy but for the positional shooting advantages (once I get into position, I don't have to break that position to run the bolt).
kind of obvious that maple is playing as many responders as he can.
