Introducing New Shooters to the Games

Not sure what you were going to say there, however spring has been of great benefit to us. We've discovered that starting new people off on our 5-Stand has been much more successful, by the end of the first round, most have figured out how to hit targets, by the end of a second most are hitting above 50%. One of our NSCA instructors at the club, pointed new shooters tend to learn faster by starting them off on incoming targets, something Don Currie teaches I guess, seems to work.
 
Maritime Storm said:
One of our NSCA instructors at the club, pointed new shooters tend to learn faster by starting them off on incoming targets, something Don Currie teaches I guess, seems to work.
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Slow, high, incoming, full-face targets that seem to hang there are very forgiving targets which helps a new shooter build confidence. If what you have are skeet and trap fields start on Skeet Low 7 or on Station 3 with the trap locked to throw gentle and rising straightaways. People learn faster once they start breaking some targets.
 
When I started out the one thing I hated was every member telling me what to do or what I was doing wrong when I never once asked for advice?! First time I shot I shot skeet. I sat back, watched a coupke squads to see the order in which the game was shot then proceeded out onto the field with just my buddy who had come with me and we shot alone with the club owner pulling targets for us. I was 15. I owned an A-5 with a Herters brand poly type choke. The club owner suggested nicely that it would be to my advantage to dial the choke from full to improved cylinder which I did. That was the only advice I ever took in my life, lol. When I started to be able to afford to shoot a little more often I would go to the club and ignore all the average shooters and their #### advice that was not asked for and I watched the "big guns" closely. I watched how they stood, mounted their guns, called for targets, where they consistently broke targets, loads they used and guns they used. I mixed it all together and developed my own style from watching a half dozen top shooters. When I was offered unsolicited advice from the types who could barely put a 20/25 together but knew it all and told all I simply nodded politely while in my mind thought get lost. Might sound harsh but I have pretty much always been a loner when it comes to learning. If new shooters ask me for help I am only too happy to assist as best I can but I only help if asked. New shooters I have always felt respond better to being made to feel a part of the group socially than just being overwhemed with tons of shooting advice most of which is generally by shooters who couldn't hit a bear in the arse with a scoop shovel.
 
the spank said:
When I started out the one thing I hated was every member telling me what to do or what I was doing wrong when I never once asked for advice?! First time I shot I shot skeet. I sat back, watched a coupke squads to see the order in which the game was shot then proceeded out onto the field with just my buddy who had come with me and we shot alone with the club owner pulling targets for us. I was 15. I owned an A-5 with a Herters brand poly type choke. The club owner suggested nicely that it would be to my advantage to dial the choke from full to improved cylinder which I did. That was the only advice I ever took in my life, lol. When I started to be able to afford to shoot a little more often I would go to the club and ignore all the average shooters and their #### advice that was not asked for and I watched the "big guns" closely. I watched how they stood, mounted their guns, called for targets, where they consistently broke targets, loads they used and guns they used. I mixed it all together and developed my own style from watching a half dozen top shooters. When I was offered unsolicited advice from the types who could barely put a 20/25 together but knew it all and told all I simply nodded politely while in my mind thought get lost. Might sound harsh but I have pretty much always been a loner when it comes to learning. If new shooters ask me for help I am only too happy to assist as best I can but I only help if asked. New shooters I have always felt respond better to being made to feel a part of the group socially than just being overwhemed with tons of shooting advice most of which is generally by shooters who couldn't hit a bear in the arse with a scoop shovel.
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Great post. I'm a long time gun owner however newbie on the range. Picking up the subtleties of skeet from the old timers, gun mount, timing, etc... If it's a small group I'll ask for constructive criticism, of which is in great supply and very welcoming. The social aspect of shooting was something that I did not expect and has helped make a few friends.....

RB
 
Redbull1 said:
Great post. I'm a long time gun owner however newbie on the range. Picking up the subtleties of skeet from the old timers, gun mount, timing, etc... If it's a small group I'll ask for constructive criticism, of which is in great supply and very welcoming. The social aspect of shooting was something that I did not expect and has helped make a few friends.....

RB
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The social aspect is where skeet/sporting clays, and trap seem to vary greatly. In trap you are on the line and can't talk, in skeet/sporting clays, there is a great deal of talking and interaction with the people that I shoot with.
 
The social aspect is just as alive and well in trap as skeet or sporting clays however trap's evolving into a game of voice release systems even in informal shooting sessions just means the socializing is done before or after the round behind the line or around the clubhouse. Registered skeet is not the social setting of informal skeet either with a time limit set on each 25 round sub event and a total time on the 100 round total event. It's a shooter lined up in order behind each station awaiting his turn and honoring the current shooter with silence behind him to allow him to focus on his targets. Actually at times I find some informal rounds too informal as they often take double the time of a normal practice round and at clubs with only one or two fields with a number of shooters awaiting their turn I find it very rude to hold them up. As well many skeet fields are running on voice release nowadays too and like trap shooters talking away on the line is wasting alot of targets due to being released with loud chatter. Each has it's place and each is fun. For me though once on the line I have no interest in chatting up a storm. I want to focus on my shooting and hopefully draw a good squad that gets into a rhythm to help maintain that focus, not be interrupted by chatterboxes. There is plenty of time to socialize off the line.
 
the spank said:
When I was offered unsolicited advice from the types who could barely put a 20/25 together but knew it all and told all I simply nodded politely while in my mind thought get lost. Might sound harsh but I have pretty much always been a loner when it comes to learning. If new shooters ask me for help I am only too happy to assist as best I can but I only help if asked. New shooters I have always felt respond better to being made to feel a part of the group socially than just being overwhelmed with tons of shooting advice most of which is generally by shooters who couldn't hit a bear in the arse with a scoop shovel.
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Your approach isn't harsh at all. I've politely told people offering unsolicited advice that it is unwelcome and to keep their opinions to themselves. On one memorable occasion I was attending a day long shooting seminar with a top notch instructor when another student took it upon himself to start telling me why I was missing a certain presentation and how to correct. My patience was worn a little thin and I wasn't all that nice when I pointed out I was paying the instructor for advice not him and that he should STFU.

I will not give advice unless asked but understand the temptation. It is sometimes frustrating to watch another shooter who is missing and know exactly why and what he could do to correct. It is infuriating and takes great restraint when a know-nothing is advising a new shooter particularly a young person or a woman. In these situations I might recommend the name of a local shooting instructor but will otherwise keep my mouth shut.
 
Claybuster said:
Your approach isn't harsh at all. I've politely told people offering unsolicited advice that it is unwelcome and to keep their opinions to themselves. On one memorable occasion I was attending a day long shooting seminar with a top notch instructor when another student took it upon himself to start telling me why I was missing a certain presentation and how to correct. My patience was worn a little thin and I wasn't all that nice when I pointed out I was paying the instructor for advice not him and that he should STFU.

I will not give advice unless asked but understand the temptation. It is sometimes frustrating to watch another shooter who is missing and know exactly why and what he could do to correct. It is infuriating and takes great restraint when a know-nothing is advising a new shooter particularly a young person or a woman. In these situations I might recommend the name of a local shooting instructor but will otherwise keep my mouth shut.
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Very well said.
 
the spank said:
The social aspect is just as alive and well in trap as skeet or sporting clays however trap's evolving into a game of voice release systems even in informal shooting sessions just means the socializing is done before or after the round behind the line or around the clubhouse. Registered skeet is not the social setting of informal skeet either with a time limit set on each 25 round sub event and a total time on the 100 round total event. It's a shooter lined up in order behind each station awaiting his turn and honoring the current shooter with silence behind him to allow him to focus on his targets. Actually at times I find some informal rounds too informal as they often take double the time of a normal practice round and at clubs with only one or two fields with a number of shooters awaiting their turn I find it very rude to hold them up. As well many skeet fields are running on voice release nowadays too and like trap shooters talking away on the line is wasting alot of targets due to being released with loud chatter. Each has it's place and each is fun. For me though once on the line I have no interest in chatting up a storm. I want to focus on my shooting and hopefully draw a good squad that gets into a rhythm to help maintain that focus, not be interrupted by chatterboxes. There is plenty of time to socialize off the line.
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Neither my previous club, or my current club use voice releases for skeet. As for chatter, it certainly isn't continuous, but both groups are fairly social, and as one shooter steps off of the station, and another is replacing him, there are often comments exchanged. And when everyone is experienced at the game, a comment while changing shooters certainly doesn't hold people up. What does hold people up, is new shooters that don't know what they are doing, or the shooters that feel that they have to line up their feet just right, and then take multiple practice swings, and then take a few breaths before each target is thrown. One shooter at my current club is a nice guy, but he takes so long to prepare for each target release that it annoys everyone. As for the caliber of shooting that occurs, despite the fact that most of us are older shooters( 50s through 80s) who no longer compete, and don't take the sport seriously anymore, there are a fair number of straight rounds shot, including some straight rounds of doubles with sub gauge shotguns. In fact a few of us normally shoot doubles instead of regular skeet, which doesn't seem to bother the other shooters at all. As far as coaching or offering advice, it usually doesn't happen unless someone asks for advice, as most of the shooters were at one time competitive shooters, and they know when they make a mistake.
 
stubblejumper said:
What does hold people up, is new shooters that don't know what they are doing, or the shooters that feel that they have to line up their feet just right, and then take multiple practice swings, and then take a few breaths before each target is thrown.
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Or the shooter who has to coach someone at a busy clay shoot while several squads are waiting.

What doesn't bother me though are Chatty Cathy's behind me when I'm shooting. I've learned over the years to tune them out and focus on the shot.
 
Claybuster said:
Or the shooter who has to coach someone at a busy clay shoot while several squads are waiting.

What doesn't bother me though are Chatty Cathy's behind me when I'm shooting. I've learned over the years to tune them out and focus on the shot.
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Yes the unwanted coach also slows people down, and that coach is often the person that watches too many videos and has to get his feet placed just right, and has to take several practice swings. He is usually the person that beaks around 20 targets per round, and really doesn't understand the game himself. And of course there is usually one person that always seems to have problems with his gun or with his reloads that slows things down. As far as concentration goes, our skeet range is next to the biathlon club where winter and summer events are going on fairly often, and we are next to a big pond where there are often thousands of geese making a racket, so quiet is often mot a possibility. Then again, if you get a squad of experienced people that simply step onto the station, and call for the targets, and shoot, the round goes very quickly, even with a few comments as shooters move on and off of the station.

As to the absolute best way to slow down a round, have two or more beginners, that haven't watched a round of skeet, using guns that they aren't familiar with, with someone that wants to coach the finer points with each new shooter. That combination has resulted in over an hour for one round of skeet. If a beginner watches a round or two first, is made familiar with the gun before the round, and you just make sure that they are safe , and don't worry about a lot of coaching, the round is far more enjoyable for everyone.
 
stubblejumper said:
Yes the unwanted coach also slows people down, and that coach is often the person that watches too many videos and has to get his feet placed just right, and has to take several practice swings. He is usually the person that beaks around 20 targets per round, and really doesn't understand the game himself. And of course there is usually one person that always seems to have problems with his gun or with his reloads that slows things down. As far as concentration goes, our skeet range is next to the biathlon club where winter and summer events are going on fairly often, and we are next to a big pond where there are often thousands of geese making a racket, so quiet is often mot a possibility. Then again, if you get a squad of experienced people that simply step onto the station, and call for the targets, and shoot, the round goes very quickly, even with a few comments as shooters move on and off of the station.

As to the absolute best way to slow down a round, have two or more beginners, that haven't watched a round of skeet, using guns that they aren't familiar with, with someone that wants to coach the finer points with each new shooter. That combination has resulted in over an hour for one round of skeet. If a beginner watches a round or two first, is made familiar with the gun before the round, and you just make sure that they are safe , and don't worry about a lot of coaching, the round is far more enjoyable for everyone.
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Which is basically what I was eluding to in my previous posts. I have a routine I have established for myself where I make sure my foot and body position are where I want them to be for my style of shooting but I am in place and gun loaded within a few seconds, not a half minute or more. Background noise will always be there, there is no controlling that. You have to learn to tune it out. Its the guys standing two feet behind the station telling jokes and laughing out loud I won't tolerate. I give each shooter the respect they deserve to be able to focus on their turn, I expect the same in return. Walking on/off the pad and saying good shooting is ok in my books by all means, that is not disruptive in any way. One thing I do when a new shooter hasxquestions is take them behind the field and watch a squad or two going through and explain the order in which the gamecis shot as it is being shot and try to offer a bit of advice by watching a round or two being shot. The other is to wait until the field is free without a line of shooters awaiting their turns then go out one on one with them and take them around. If there is more than one I explain each stations order of shooting etc as a whole rather than individually. There is no 1 hour rounds that way.
 
Guys at my club were great. They have a rule - one helpful comment per day unless you ask for more. They were very welcoming and encouraging. Absolutely non judgemental and there are no gun snobs there.
 
To avoid conflict, beginners/new guests are brought to another field to allow the experienced members shooting practice rounds undisturbed. It also keeps the older more experienced members from trying to coach and let's the instructor do his job. Keeps everyone happy, once a guest has gotten familiar with the game and comfortable, only then are they allowed to join the regular members, if they desire. Sounds harsh, but does keep conflicts to a minimum, and the new shooter learns more efficiently.
 
Maritime Storm said:
To avoid conflict, beginners/new guests are brought to another field to allow the experienced members shooting practice rounds undisturbed. It also keeps the older more experienced members from trying to coach and let's the instructor do his job. Keeps everyone happy, once a guest has gotten familiar with the game and comfortable, only then are they allowed to join the regular members, if they desire. Sounds harsh, but does keep conflicts to a minimum, and the new shooter learns more efficiently.
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That is well and good if you have two or more fields, many smaller clubs have one skeet field, and one trap field.
 
Maritime Storm said:
This is true, funny you should mention it their is a write-up about a club in Texas with 1 trap & 1 skeet with 700 members.
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My current club has 800 members and one of each field, my previous club had 2500 members with one skeet field and two trap fields, but one trap field was overlapped by the skeet field, so a second trap field was just built. These are both clubs that offer rifle , handgun and archery ranges, not just trap and skeet, so many members don't shoot trap or skeet.
 
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