IPSC Canada Nationals - Quebec

Freedom Ventures said:
The nationals is 2 half days - not 4 days. There's a day of work and you get a day off. 4 days are necessary to put everyone through the match.
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I realize the schedule. I did shoot that match, but my statement was the match was 'stretched' out over 4 days of commitment for shooters in order to complete the match. To compare Ontario provincials was a 15 stage match with 300 registered competitors and shooters were only required to have a single day of commitment as you shot all the stages in one day and the squad patched also. There were no complaints about that format, whereas in Quebec I was required to have several days off work and accomodation. Yes in Ontario there was still a several day commitment from the staff (CRO's, RO's, etc) but from the shooters there was no more then being ready to go at 9am untill 5pm with all your gear on and a roll of patches in your pocket.

Now, I personally did enjoy my time in Quebec as I spent my free time doing tourist things. However there is an appeal to more people budget wise to just shoot the match in one day. But the format is up to the match committee hosting the match, logistically though I believe single day formats are easier to plan.
 
welder179 said:
I realize the schedule. I did shoot that match, but my statement was the match was 'stretched' out over 4 days of commitment for shooters in order to complete the match.
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Ontario enjoys the luxury of having a official base big enough that they can have paid RO and CRO staff for L3s. Unfortunately, the rest of the country does not have that, so the nationals must ask it's entrants to work. As for the 8 stages a half day; the World Shoot and L4s all only shoot 6 a half day; (1 long, 2 medium and 3 short) so we're in line with their format. Our Nationals is the entrance door to L4s and L5s; it gives people a chance to acclimate.
 
euxx said:
She did got top Lady. But can't be a Canadian champion if she is not living in Canada. Next Lady was 13% down from her.

But unlike regular competitors, most of the top guest shooters shot a pre-match in one day and didn't have to work a full day like the rest of us. I don't think that was fair to the regular shooters who paid for that match to happen.
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CZ team performed during regular days.
 
euxx said:
Like I said, I'd still prefer to shoot it in one day and then save several days of my time.
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Then I suggest shooting the pre match when you can, I did it for nationals in 2016 and would prefer not to do it again, as the heat and fatigue sets in performance starts to suffer, even shooting summer slam this year splitting 19 stages over 2 days I made mistakes on the last stage of the first day that I know I would not have made had I shot it earlier in the day before the heat and humidity had taken its toll.
 
Freedom Ventures said:
Ontario enjoys the luxury of having a official base big enough that they can have paid RO and CRO staff for L3s. Unfortunately, the rest of the country does not have that, so the nationals must ask it's entrants to work. As for the 8 stages a half day; the World Shoot and L4s all only shoot 6 a half day; (1 long, 2 medium and 3 short) so we're in line with their format. Our Nationals is the entrance door to L4s and L5s; it gives people a chance to acclimate.
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Fair enough, that's a very fair point on acclimation for L4+ shoots.
 
I shot the prematch once.

Would I do it again? Sure, but I don't think it helped my performance, and I did miss shooting with some of my regular shooting buddies who I share ideas and plans with. For the record, I finished 3rd that year, 30 points behind, but I feel that if I had shot in the main match, I would have benefited from being squadded with some of my peers who would have helped me plan the stages better.

The plus side of shooting all in one day, if you're focused, then you're going to have a good day. If you're not on, well, then you don't have a day to get your head straight. If the weather is bad, then you get bad weather the whole day, too.

It also depends on the match. This particular match where I shot the prematch was pretty straight forward and there was no rush to finish, but I've seen some matches where the pre-match goes long hours past expectations. I would not want to be shooting the prematch on those days.

Last time we had Nationals in BC, we allocated 2 days to the prematch, to give officials time to take it slower if they wanted or to finish it all in one day and then have a day off. I seem to recall that all of them tried to finish the prematch in one day, under a blisteringly hot sun and continued shooting until around 7pm to make sure that they finished. This was a match where we offered a higher fee for inclusion in the pre match with no work requirement. I think we had fewer than 10 people take it.
 
Freedom Ventures said:
There's a day of work and you get a day off. 4 days are necessary to put everyone through the match.
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I just posted updated nationals stats at http://ipsc-canada.org/nationals/

This year was only 30..40 competitors more than the the two previous years. Doesn't seem justified for an additional day (there were 10 squads every half day).

And in all 10 years that full day of work still makes no sense. We've been patching our targets at all our L3s here.

Freedom Ventures said:
Ontario enjoys the luxury of having a official base big enough that they can have paid RO and CRO staff for L3s. Unfortunately, the rest of the country does not have that...
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Sean, isn't the rest of the country all in the same place regardless where match is located?
Besides, what does number of ROs in a province has anything to do with match orgs paying them? What stops others from paying their ROs?
 
I think Sean was referring to L3 matches in general, and the limiting factor to having dedicated match officials is:


a) Match fees. If you have a larger match, the costs of your RO's are split up between all of the competitors.
b) Enough RO's willing to work the entire match. In BC, we have officials who don't want to actually officiate, and top competitors who don't even want to get their RO status. When you have a limited pool of officials, the chance of finding people who want to work becomes a lot lower.
 
hungrybeagle said:
I think Sean was referring to L3 matches in general, and the limiting factor to having dedicated match officials is:
a) Match fees. If you have a larger match, the costs of your RO's are split up between all of the competitors.
b) Enough RO's willing to work the entire match. In BC, we have officials who don't want to actually officiate, and top competitors who don't even want to get their RO status. When you have a limited pool of officials, the chance of finding people who want to work becomes a lot lower.
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Chris, your conclusions make no sense. The Nationals is a premium match and it had higher match fee than any other L3s.
The match had more competitors too and large group of them had to stay there for the most of the week anyways. Many would volunteer, especially if there was some incentive. You don't need all ROs to work entire match. Only CROs and dedicated crew need to. At local L3s we have RO rotating, either volunteer or paid. The requirement to work a full day is basically a rip-off to get free ROs, or in other words additional profit for the match.
 
if i had a choice i would rather patch and help reset for my squad then to work a full day. i think it would simplify things much more.
 
For me personally it is best to work all day and shoot two half days. That way I can concentrate on shooting only. Still a bit lost on what the problem is here...
 
Dmitri_W said:
For me personally it is best to work all day and shoot two half days. That way I can concentrate on shooting only. Still a bit lost on what the problem is here...
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Would you volunteer for that full day if you didn't have to, instead of patching during your shooting shifts?

The problem it is not a voluntary work and also not the same for everyone. Some competitors were allowed to not work. For various reasons... On our last day, after finishing shooting our squad was required to stay and help at the stage. Because stage had no workers left by that time. And we had worked that full day before that. Bummer, eh? Not complaining about that last part here, we all helping when help is needed, and yet someone obviously wasn't working that stage.
 
I had fun, great stages and great city to host in. Liked the banquet too!

Few downers:
-Being told that we need to pick brass as a competitor after we finish shooting for the afternoon.
-Being told that we have to stay to tear down stages after last workday, no warning on that one, have rides etc to meet. In the end my stage cro let us go. Some others had to stay.
-One cro talking to his workers like they were children in front of others.
-Busses not going often enough, not much time to check out vendors, and my work day was on the other range site.
 
Would I volunteer for a full day and then concentrate on shooting only? YES, that's not even a question! I would also willingly pay to avoid a work day if I was given a choice, I want to concentrate on shooting during my shooting days and nothing else!
 
I too would rather work a full day than patch and reset during my shooting. Last thing I want to be doing is that when I'm there to shoot. For smaller matches no problem, but for major matches, no thanks. I would also pay extra to not have to work at all. Bring in cadets or scouts or something and have them patch and reset. Pay CROs and ROs to be there and shoot the prematch. I would also actually RO/CRO a prematch for the officials if there was a day off before shooting started. And speaking of day off, during the shooting portion, if there was no work requirement, we could do away with the whole day off thing. Give us 3 half days of shooting, 24 or more stages total. That would rock.
I don't know what it is with Canada and our matches, but we could learn a lot from Europe and how they run major matches there. Look at Extreme Euro, Infinity and of course Baltic Storm which is 40 stages shot over two days in 5hr sessions. Yes, 20 stages in 5-5.5hrs. You want to be tested on your mental game, go shoot that.
 
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