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RayT

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I am awating the next black badge course to start attending IPSC matches but I have a couple questions? I would qualify as a "futre program" competer

Do I have to take a "range safety course" if I have Completed the canadian restricted firearms safety course?

with a range membership do I automatically obtain a CSSA membership?
 
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Hi,

Almost all clubs will put you through their own safety course; it's both to see how much you remember of the federal course, and to introduce you to any club-specific stuff they might have.

Also, a lot of clubs will insist on you having a CSSA membership for insurance purposes (so you're covered by the CSSA insurance). It's a good thing to have regardless...

Also, keep in mind that the black badge course is not an intro-to-pistol-shooting course, you are expected to know how to shoot your/a pistols already. the BB course teaches you how to shoot it "the ipsc way". So, make sure you can keep your shots on a, say, 8.5"x11" page at, say, 15m, before you try attending the ipsc course...
 
omen said:
Also, keep in mind that the black badge course is not an intro-to-pistol-shooting course, you are expected to know how to shoot your/a pistols already. the BB course teaches you how to shoot it "the ipsc way". So, make sure you can keep your shots on a, say, 8.5"x11" page at, say, 15m, before you try attending the ipsc course...
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Although it's true that the Black Badge course is not an 'intro-to-pistol-shooting' course, I've successfully trained individuals on the course who've never shot a pistol before. It's almost easier to teach someone from 'scratch' before they've ingrained any bad shooting habits.......;)
 
I prefer the rule of thumb that used to be the norm a few years back, which was that you should be a pistolera for at least 1 year before taking a BB course. Now, that has change to people taking the BB course right after getting their PAL. I disagree with this & would hope that local clubs use this rule of thumb, though it's not law.
I believe you should be very custom to the use of the gun you're ging to use
out of a holster, etc..
I agree about the bad habits a bit , I guess, but prefer someone experience & then trained. if they have bad habits & show them during the course, then don't pass them.
So Rayt, my suggestion to you is, get out & practise with your gun as much as possible from now til the BB course you're going to take. You'll have more experience, better prepared, more confident & a better shot during the course. you'll probably enjoy the course more too.

Have fun :)
 
I think someone jumping into IPSC directly after getting their PAL is a great idea. They will learn a ton more doing that, and it will be more beneficial to them in the long run. There is no good reason to wait, and as others have said, you are more likely to learn bad habbits that will take a long time to train out, if you try to learn on your own without pro help. I know cuz I am still trying to get rid of some of my own, and apparently I know what I am doing.
 
colt45gunner said:
I prefer the rule of thumb that used to be the norm a few years back, which was that you should be a pistolera for at least 1 year before taking a BB course. Now, that has change to people taking the BB course right after getting their PAL. I disagree with this & would hope that local clubs use this rule of thumb, though it's not law.

Nonsense, have them wait 1 year and you lost them. How come in the US they don't even have a BB course? Do we hear of dead shooters piling on the ranges?

Show them right away that this is the most fun they will have with their pants on. Notwithstanding that our safety rules will keep them more safe than any of the so called "club safety courses"
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I'm not worried about losing them, that's not the important part.
some people develop bad habits right after being taught anything.
I'd rather they have a year of someone pointing out there bad habits from a shooting rest rather then from while on the run & facing up range:eek:

I know accidents are rare in our great sport, but they exist & who knows how many happened while they're were practising, but no one was there to witness it.
I've supervise new shooters & they seem unsure & nervous & sort of fumbling.
Sure you teach them from scratch from a holster & they go nice & slow cause you're watching & they're doing their darnest to get it right, and halalouya, they get it right for you, and then they're on their own , their knees are knocking, they're practising their draw. the only reason they haven't shot their foot off is because the round hit 12" in front of them instead of their big toe. whew :redface: thank god, oh any one looking, no?

Unless you give an extensive training program, many hours & rounds down range & dry practise, you can't tell me with a straight face that a brand new handgunner should be allowed to shoot IPSC. I don't care what the yanks do (god love them & their laws :D )

some may just be born with the nack, but I would want a record of safe handling before advancing. look at cops, would you want them in a gun fight near you ?
 
...if people are not ready to shoot IPSC...they won't make it past the first 3 hours of the BB...so there are no issues...

Frankly...it's some of the "experienced" shooters that know everything...who take a BB and scare the bejeesus out of me. :cool:

I had exactly 100 rounds of Center Fire Pistol under my belt when I took my BB.

I'm sure I was a bit of a challenge for the Instructor for the first half day (Kent...great teacher BTW) but I was safe...and I didn't have 1 year worth of bad habits for him to undo...

Not an official policy...just my personal opinion
 
I would have to agree with Dragoon, Slavex and Quigley (sorry, colt45gunner).

I think that someone who hasn't shot much can be taught in a very short time to do it effectively but it comes down to the knowledge, skills and instructional abilities of the instructor. There are far too many BB instructors who preach the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality but there are also those (like Kent) who can teach, mentor and guide using the "crawl, walk, run" methods of instruction.

I truly believe that a BB instructor should be no less than B class and must be able to perform on demand exactly what they want their students to do and do it using perfect form. An instructor must also be able to instill a "Safety first" mindset in his student.

Not everyone can instruct. It takes knowledge, personality, intelligence and skills. Heck, we have Master class shooters that scare the heck out of me evertime they shoot and I certainly wouldn't want them to instruct!;)

How did this become a "Flame the cops thread" ... RayT...I am a cop, police firearms instructor, tactical instructor and former tactical operator, master class in Standard and Production. We teach IPSC skills but not everyone can pick them up. Nor do many cops see the gun as being an important tool. Too bad too, 'cause shooting is fun and they do need to know about safety. If you look at those cops who couldn't hit a skunk at 8 yards then I'm sure they may have been the gun-toting cowboy who talks a good game... then again, you ever try shooting a skunk on the move at 8 yards when you don't wanna get sprayed?

There are some cops in IPSC, some keep it quiet, some of us are well known for our off range antics.

Be careful who you flame here.
 
I have to agree with Quigley the worst things I have seen came from experieced shooters, try watching a stage were you start downrange and have to run backwards....:eek:

And please no flaming of cops, remember that they were civilians before.
Some people are interested in guns others not, the same goes for cops.
 
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I knew a tactical operator once,............................:cool:
she worked for the phone company:p
 
I guess you must have had a ### change recently Tritium.

'Cause you are too short to be a man, and too ugly to be handsome!

Sorry Quigley, didn't mean to break into your territory. I like to beat on him every now and then too.

Nice to hear from you Tritium. Hope to see you at some matches this year. I like your reply about cops and actually, all the cops I have seen shoot IPSC are very good and very safe.........as far as cops go.

Gotcha. Just don't bring out the "Timmy's" while they are on the range. Their concentration goes for a crap. And the jelly gets into the action of the pistol, and.......well, you get it.

As for the experience before a BB course, I think the person needs to be comfortable with the basic functions of the gun, and shooting in general. No time specific, because everyone is different. "Comfort zone" is more the issue, and training will come from the course and a good instructor. Just my opinion.
 
I think it's those been there done it all shooters that are the scariest. I've been shooting for years now, and have seen some of these chest stuck out, holding onto the front of their belts, wannabe John Wayne types- self proclaimed shoot a gnat off a horses back at 100 yards; that were actually worse at safe gun handling than the majority of first time shooters I've been around. Sorry for the poor dramatization. Abman and myself have given BB courses to shooters with almost zero experience who looked like veterans after a little guidance. IPSC is so safety conscious, that it really is the perfect activity for a new shooter to try, as I believe it's probally the best course that covers so much and you will actually get something out of it.
 
Even for people that may not compete regularly in IPSC, taking the Black Badge is a good way to introduce safety to a new shooter, but also is good for our sport because it opens the eyes of many that there are some really fun activities that can be had with a firearm. When my dad and I took the course in January 1990, (I was 14) prior to that we didn't really know anything about the sport and we never looked back. We shot some local "practical" matches with shotgun and pistol in '89 that weren't IPSC affiliated, but man, once we got started.......It's all history now. Tritium, it's alot of times these Know-it-alls are the ones that bash our sport; and they should take a hard look at themselves and their lack of saftey and good gun handling skills.
 
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well i took my BB course with a bunch of really nice guys
one of them a young guy from RMC, not someone that had shot a hell of alot with a pistol but some.
He was really good ,safe and took in what the BB instrustor had to say.
Not once did the instructor have to get on him about finger on the trigger or any saftey issues.
Now there was one shooter who had been shooting for 15 20yrs so he said.
And boy he got me jumping a few times, i think the course was a bit to much for him,he managed in the end but i tell you there was more then me that had eyes on him.
So i think that the BB course is just another trainning course and everyone has somthing to learn from it but you have to do what the instructors are telling you to do.
I think a new shooter going right into a BB course is a good idea.
I think ipsc people can be some of the most safe people i,ve seen on a range.
bbb
 
Quigley said:
yes....the only person on this board that is allowed to flame that little 4 foot, puffy chested, pointy headed Tritium...is ME :p
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I certainly wouldn't interfer with your love affair...but if I get squad with him.......all bets are off :D :cool:
 
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