IPSC Oversight

It serves no purpose to impliment policy that we can't enforce...it just becomes a tool for certain people to use to target individuals...and we don't intend to go there.

People not shooting...but continuing to belong...is not a problem so feel free to show what harms it's doing. If we get an epidemic of inactive shooters suddenly showing up and shooting out the lights...then you can say I told you so...



maxpig said:
I am aware of these and most of my posts used this criteria as basis in my arguement that there are no provisions for current members who pay but don't shoot for 4 yrs or more years... they aren't required to redo anything but heaven forbid you stop paying dues....

Since you felt that I didn't understand the policy and reposted it for me (thank you for that) please explain how someone who is current and hasn't fired a shot in our sport for last 4 or more years is more safe than someone who just walked away from our sport (or chose to participate in another shooting sport) for the last 4 or more years and wishes to rejoin our ranks??

The inequities here are very exclusive and not very inclusive.
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Quigley said:
Is it causing you any personal distress that Bud isn't shooting? Do you feel less safe on the range?? Does it keep you up at nite???

You seem pretty pre-occupied with Bud...almost obsessive...

I do find it rather ironic that so many of you are putting this much thought in how to exclude people. Too bad you don't put an equal amount of thought in how to get these same people out to the range.
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Ok here is chance to to get some one back into the sport. If you have passed the black badge course Why must you pay full price to take the course again if you have been out more than 4 years.
 
MOBILE 1 said:
Ok here is chance to to get some one back into the sport. If you have passed the black badge course Why must you pay full price to take the course again if you have been out more than 4 years.
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Well if you haven't been supporting the organization...why should the re-certifiction be free?
 
Quigley said:
Only after 5 years of absense...

  • Up to 2 years...you just have to reniew (membership fees only)
  • At 3 years you would need an Instrcutor assesment (and the Instrcutor will decide if any additional training is required) If no additional re-training is required...you just pay regular membership fees
  • At 4 years you need to retake the BB (discounted rate of $50 plus the membership fees)
  • At 5 years absense...is a full re-certifiction (no discounts on cost)
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Out of personal self interest, I think I'd like the opportunity to challenge the exam before having to re-take the BB;)
 
apples and oranges. at the movies you payed for a specific service and you got it.
If the BB fee is to cover the course and there's a test at the end. Then why not let people who have already payed for and received the course challenge the test for free or at a lower cost. How can you put an expiry date on the safety of someone's shooting? If shooter A doesn't renew for 2008 but spends the next 5 years safely shooting USPSA matches every weekend, and shooter B keeps paying their IPSC dues but never touches a gun for 5 years. Who is more in need of a "re-cert" by the time 2013 come around? It would seem that as far as the BB is concerned, financially supporting the organization is what stops your ability to safely handle a firearm from diminishing, rather then safely using a firearm on a regular basis :confused:
 
Quigley said:
Is it causing you any personal distress that Bud isn't shooting? Do you feel less safe on the range?? Does it keep you up at nite???

You seem pretty pre-occupied with Bud...almost obsessive...

I do find it rather ironic that so many of you are putting this much thought in how to exclude people. Too bad you don't put an equal amount of thought in how to get these same people out to the range.
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Well since you asked, I am a little concerned that someone who has a say in the direction of our game doesn't play it and hasn't played it in a while. Also that our head range official (President of NROI) isn't a current range official and hasn't RO'd in a while. Related question, Do you need to stay a current RO and/or teach a minimum number of BB courses in a year to stay an instructor??

I sleep very well, be it night or day, thanks for your concern.
 
Quigley said:
Ah but...:cool:

Remember...it's not a test...it's a course (with a test at the end)
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Agreed, but having done it once before and passing, would it not make some sense to take one pass at all of the drills to see if you can cut the mustard?

The purpose of the course is (I believe) to ensure the competitor has a sound basic understanding of the safe draw and engagement of the target from multiple positions and from multiple distances, and a sound understanding of the current rulebook.

I think it is possible that many returning shooters could meet the standards of performance of the BB course without redoing the whole thing. Clearly some will need the full refresher.
 
Quigley said:
:rolleyes:

I went to the movies last week...I paid to get in. If I go again next week...I'm pretty sure I'll have to pay again (even if I see the same movie)

Things cost money Joe...even in Canada
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Yes I know things cost money. But how many thousands has IPSC Ont pissed away to charge pennies?

The case we have down here to back my case up.
We have a person down here that passed the B/B course in the early 90's. He supported this organization for 10 years. He has spent the last 6 years with his young sons Baseball , Hockey and motocross. Now he would like to come back to shot IPSC but is told that he has to take the B/B course at full price. Have in mind that this person has not had a problem DQing in matches or been unsafe in any way.

What is wrong with letting a B/B instructor doing a evaluation of him at the next B/B course in his area. If the instructor feels he is fine then sign off he send in his dues and every body is happy. IPSC Ont gets it $80 for how many years to come. No IPSC Ont would rather have him tell him no he will not pay $170 or $180 what ever it is now and not give IPSC Ont dues at all. How much farther a head is IPSC now?
 
Not interested in targeting anyone... just looking to make it equitable... The rules, sorry policy (haven't actually looked at the wording surrounding BB in Canada as a region can only speak of Ontario Policy) must at least seem impartial especially as far as Safety is Concerned... Because of this inequity you can't say it's for safety.

If it's a cash grab then just say so and impose a re-entry fee as many clubs that I belong to and actually some local hiring halls(trade Unions) do... because you were gone 5 years you need to pay 50,60,70, 100 whichever (take ur pick) extra for back dues and put that money directly into Ontario's coffers and not split it up among instructors, range fees, making them travel to a course they already took , take time off work..etc... as it stands the policy deters those who wish to return to IPSC and participate.

As far as it being unenforceable ... it absolutely can be enforceable and easily. Tie it in with the Classification system and boom your done... you shoot any of the required components even if you don't get classified you get entered into the system and if ur there you must have shot... remember last Classification system there would be a column beside ur name that said number of matches... there you go simple... I also volunteered to help with maintaining the records....
 
MOBILE 1 said:
What is wrong with letting a B/B instructor doing a evaluation of him at the next B/B course in his area. If the instructor feels he is fine then sign off he send in his dues and every body is happy. IPSC Ont gets it $80 for how many years to come. No IPSC Ont would rather have him tell him no he will not pay $170 or $180 what ever it is now and not give IPSC Ont dues at all. How much farther a head is IPSC now?
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Why does it have to be a BB instructor? A CRO should be able to make that call
 
USP said:
So out of interest...how long has it been since Bud has shot a match?
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Don't you dare ask questions like that! You're asking for trouble. You'll join the rest of us branded as "politically unreliable". We might get sent to a re-education camp eventually.
 
Someone steps up and volunteers to work. Then they get elected and re-elected by the organization’s members. Then they dedicate untold number of hours working for that organization over multiple years, only to be crucified by a couple of people with an internet connection that expect the job to get done anyway.

Gee, I wonder why there's no line up of people to run your provincials?:rolleyes:

Smarten up, Guys. You're your own worst enemies.
 
Freedom Ventures said:
Someone steps up and volunteers to work. Then they get elected and re-elected by the organization’s members. Then they dedicate untold number of hours working for that organization over multiple years, only to be crucified by a couple of people with an internet connection that expect the job to get done anyway.

Gee, I wonder why there's no line up of people to run your provincials?:rolleyes:

Smarten up, Guys. You're your own worst enemies.
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100% correct, this is why I walked away from IPSC many years ago, and this BS still goes on here in Ontario.
 
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