IPSC Production gun question

euxx said:
Rob, I'd agree with you, if we're talking about experienced shooter. But lots of beginners are unconsciously incompetent and may just rack the slide after inserting a magazine on a pure reflex.
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Have to call BS. The shooter is being supervised by an RO; no? The RO should stop the shooter and start the 'unload show clear' over again if he racks the slide after inserting a mag (regardless if it's an empty mag or if it has rounds in it).
 
Aqualung said:
Have to call BS. The shooter is being supervised by an RO; no? The RO should stop the shooter and start the 'unload show clear' over again if he racks the slide after inserting a mag (regardless if it's an empty mag or if it has rounds in it).
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Do you RO often? I regularly see some super speed competitors who pull the trigger before I finish "unload and show clear"... Not saying everyone do that, and I have to repeat command again for those.

So, call it whatever you like, I won't allow you to use loaded magazin to drop the hammer/striker.
 
7.62mm said:
I didn't realize RO's were allowed to make their own rules as they go along!
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Craig, please show me the rule allowing competitor insert a loaded magazin after "unload and show clear" command.

As per rule 10.5.13 - "loaded firearm is defined as a firearm having a live or dummy round in the chamber or cylinder, or having a live or dummy round in a magazine inserted in the firearm".
 
Eugene, please show me the rule where it says a competitor can't use a loaded mag.....here is a hint:

http://www.nroi-canada.org/faq.html

Pay attention to the highlighted portions!

What is the proper way to "Unload & Show Clear" with a pistol that has a magazine safety?


The answer is not in the rule book. What is recommend is that you tell the Ranger Officer at the beginning of the stage that you require a magazine in the firearm in order to drop the hammer on a empty chamber. The magazine that you use to do this should be empty. Communication is the key. Make sure that the Range Officer is informed.
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7.62mm said:
Well, that is the whole thing Eugene...... isn't an enforceable rule!
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I don't think it would be a good idea to stand and argue with RO having uncleared gun in holster while range is still hot. The first RO responsibility is to ensure safety and it will be ROs call.
 
Another option is to dedicate 1 mag as your stripper mag. Load it with one round for the load and make ready step. Once it's chambered you have an empty mag to put in your back pocket for unload and show clear. I shot with an M&P for 6 months and found this worked well, although I had 6 mags so a stripper one was easy to set up.

If you are worried about having enough rounds for some longer stages (you mentioned about having five mags only) then you may want to consider getting one more mag to facilitate this if you are uncomfortable with a loaded mag for hammer down.

lonedrone
 
sorry Eugene you can request him to use an unloaded mag all you want, it's still legal for him to use a loaded one. While some shooters do the sequence super quick, before even all the commands are finished, I have yet to see a shooter who needs to use a mag to disengage a mag safety do it super quick.
So yeah, I'd stand around and argue with you on this one dude.
 
Rob, like I said, strictly speaking it is conflicting with rule 10.5.13. I don't want to be an ass, but Canadian NROI FAQ is not a rule book and standing and arguing with an RO may land you at 10.6.1...
 
putting a loaded mag in to a firearm that has the slide forward to put the hammer down is no longer a loaded firearm when the mag is removed and the firearm is holstered.

as an RO i understand this concept, as a shooter i understand this concept.

if the firearm discharges when the hammer is put down we all know that is a DQ and we all know this concept
 
Actually it wouldn't be in conflict with rule 10.5.13 if done while under the supervision of a Range Official...

In any event...this whole thread sounds like a solution looking for a problem...

euxx said:
Rob, like I said, strictly speaking it is conflicting with rule 10.5.13. I don't want to be an ass, but Canadian NROI FAQ is not a rule book and standing and arguing with an RO may land you at 10.6.1...
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Slavex said:
sorry Eugene you can request him to use an unloaded mag all you want, it's still legal for him to use a loaded one. While some shooters do the sequence super quick, before even all the commands are finished, I have yet to see a shooter who needs to use a mag to disengage a mag safety do it super quick.
So yeah, I'd stand around and argue with you on this one dude.
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I agree, and if you have any doubts, after he removes the mag just have him show you an empty chamber again, repeat until you as the RO feel comfortable. It would be unfortunate to hold up the rest of the match because of this...lol
 
Sometimes Eugene,...when you dig your heels in too deep,...all you do is sink. I would prefer an empty mag for this procedure, but if not than I would accept the slide being forward,...then insert a mag and hammer down for those mag disconnect contraptions.
 
Eugene you've seen me argue over bad calls before. DQ'ing someone who is doing something allowed by the rulebook because you don't like it, won't be supported by an Arbitration Committee.
 
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