IPSC Range Officers officiating with holstered firearms.
- Thread starter Abman
- Start date
At the size ranges where IPSC matches are run, your vehicle could be a long walk away from any given range,
so leaving it at the closest Safe Area table is the only practical option.
Club-level matches don't necessarily have Safe Area at each range.
Pistols shouldn't fall out of properly designed holsters.
I'm not a fan of "selectable retention switch" holsters popular today,
but then I'm "old-school". (I started IPSC in 1986)
IPSC rules *used* to have tests that a holster firearm could be required to pass for proper retention
but they have since been dropped.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15080
Posted 13 July 2004 - 02:17 AM
Hi DB,
Rather than an opinion, I'll give you The Facts.
The former Holster Test was officially abandoned, and the reason was quite simple - when competitors came to that particular stage, they adjusted their holster beforehand to ensure they'd pass, so this defeated the purpose of having the test in the first place. In any case, the penalty for holding your gun (or preventing it hitting the dirt if it "popped out") of 1 Procedural Penalty was hardly a deterrent.
Of course the fact that 60% (??) of our competitors couldn't do a forward roll if their life depended on it, even if the end of that journey involved falling off a bed into the waiting arms of Pamela Anderson (Brad Pitt for the ladies), was another issue.
Now, every stage which begins with a holstered gun is a defacto holster test and, if you drop your gun during a COF, you're toast. The former test was valid in the "old good days" when people used real (i.e. non-Star Trek) holsters, but there's not much point today because things have changed so much.
Hope this helps.
DVC, Vince Pinto
IPSC Executive Director
IPSC Competition Director
IPSC Handgun Rules Director
https://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf
so leaving it at the closest Safe Area table is the only practical option.
Club-level matches don't necessarily have Safe Area at each range.
Pistols shouldn't fall out of properly designed holsters.
I'm not a fan of "selectable retention switch" holsters popular today,
but then I'm "old-school". (I started IPSC in 1986)
IPSC rules *used* to have tests that a holster firearm could be required to pass for proper retention
but they have since been dropped.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15080
Posted 13 July 2004 - 02:17 AM
Hi DB,
Rather than an opinion, I'll give you The Facts.
The former Holster Test was officially abandoned, and the reason was quite simple - when competitors came to that particular stage, they adjusted their holster beforehand to ensure they'd pass, so this defeated the purpose of having the test in the first place. In any case, the penalty for holding your gun (or preventing it hitting the dirt if it "popped out") of 1 Procedural Penalty was hardly a deterrent.
Of course the fact that 60% (??) of our competitors couldn't do a forward roll if their life depended on it, even if the end of that journey involved falling off a bed into the waiting arms of Pamela Anderson (Brad Pitt for the ladies), was another issue.
Now, every stage which begins with a holstered gun is a defacto holster test and, if you drop your gun during a COF, you're toast. The former test was valid in the "old good days" when people used real (i.e. non-Star Trek) holsters, but there's not much point today because things have changed so much.
Hope this helps.
DVC, Vince Pinto
IPSC Executive Director
IPSC Competition Director
IPSC Handgun Rules Director
https://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf
Last edited:
- Location
- East ontario
Dexter Morgan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This of course would be an amendment to that rule.
Painting would be allowed; But only in the approved colors of pink and purple.
Allowable blended shades of pink and purple will be at the sole discretion of the match director.
Dangerous colors such as OD-Green or Tan would specifically be banned.
Would I be correct in assuming that the ROs' holstered pistols would not be loaded, and would have been holstered after being proven safe?
If so, what possible difference could it make if a RO had his pistol with him while officiating and waiting to shoot?
If so, what possible difference could it make if a RO had his pistol with him while officiating and waiting to shoot?
It was not to that extreme, the ROs were required while officiating to not to have a holstered firearm, they bagged them however were not required to have a trigger lock.
While one may argue the merits of a particular rule (not directed at you), it is a rule and certainly not worthy of risking the loss of Level III sanctioning. It would be unfair to the competitors as well as the Match Director must sign off on using approved stages and the use of the applicable version of the rule book in force.
If the firearm falls to the ground, the stage must be immediately stopped and persons removed from immediate area, firearm verified safe (ACTS-PROV). The competitor would require a re-shoot through no fault of his/her own.
While I'm not a fan of having to remove the gun to RO, having a Safe Area close by is not a necessity.
The person taking over RO'ing comes to the line. The current RO says "Unload, show clear" and then the gun is checked and bagged. The newly de-gunned RO then takes over command and says to the previous RO "Unload and show clear" and the previous guy takes his gun out of this bag, checks it, and holsters it.
It takes less than a minute, if both guys are organize and have their gun bags handy (which everyone does, because you never go to the stage without your gun bag.)
.. but again: I'druther just leave it on my hip.
-ivan-
The person taking over RO'ing comes to the line. The current RO says "Unload, show clear" and then the gun is checked and bagged. The newly de-gunned RO then takes over command and says to the previous RO "Unload and show clear" and the previous guy takes his gun out of this bag, checks it, and holsters it.
It takes less than a minute, if both guys are organize and have their gun bags handy (which everyone does, because you never go to the stage without your gun bag.)
.. but again: I'druther just leave it on my hip.
-ivan-
Painting your gun is banned in IPSC ......
No it isn't
Redonkulous.
(a) if you're running with a holstered gun, if takes no real effort to put a hand over it (if you modified the holster for a less vice-like grip on the pistol).
(b) if the gun falls out and onto the ground, it wouldn't go off by itself, even if it was loaded. And it's not loaded, because we don't carry them loaded.
If the IPSC exec is so paranoid about an inanimate piece of steel on the range floor, they should probably join the Bloomberg group. Bunch of lawyers, the lot of them. That's why we're bleeding members to USPSA and IDPA.
(a) if you're running with a holstered gun, if takes no real effort to put a hand over it (if you modified the holster for a less vice-like grip on the pistol).
(b) if the gun falls out and onto the ground, it wouldn't go off by itself, even if it was loaded. And it's not loaded, because we don't carry them loaded.
If the IPSC exec is so paranoid about an inanimate piece of steel on the range floor, they should probably join the Bloomberg group. Bunch of lawyers, the lot of them. That's why we're bleeding members to USPSA and IDPA.
- Location
- East ontario
off to paint my glock 17 then.
I did my first L2 match this year, and quickly found out about the new rule when I went to RO. Whoops, gotta go read the new rules.
It's all of 3 seconds to open the action of a pistol, put it on the table in the safe zone. Personally it doesn't matter to me pistol in our out, it really doesn't make any difference. It's not like you're RO'ing before you shoot, you have lots of time to pickup your pistol then examine the COF prior to shooting.
I have an open kydex holster (non race) and if I were to trip and fall on the pistol, yeah.. there's a really small chance it could release if I were to like.. flail miserably while tumbling to the ground. And if that actually happened, I want someone to record that so I can put it on youtube.
It's all of 3 seconds to open the action of a pistol, put it on the table in the safe zone. Personally it doesn't matter to me pistol in our out, it really doesn't make any difference. It's not like you're RO'ing before you shoot, you have lots of time to pickup your pistol then examine the COF prior to shooting.
I have an open kydex holster (non race) and if I were to trip and fall on the pistol, yeah.. there's a really small chance it could release if I were to like.. flail miserably while tumbling to the ground. And if that actually happened, I want someone to record that so I can put it on youtube.
Technically not a ban since the wording of the Fudd-section is "strongly discouraged" and not "forbidden". It was worded that way on purpose - so Pinto can claim that it's not really a ban and that it's up to the MD's discretion while still bamboozling MD's and RD's into thinking that a match can't be sanctioned if one of those dirty, smelly, North Americans wears that God-awful camouflage clothing, sheesh
Technically not a ban since the wording of the Fudd-section is "strongly discouraged" and not "forbidden". It was worded that way on purpose - so Pinto can claim that it's not really a ban and that it's up to the MD's discretion while still bamboozling MD's and RD's into thinking that a match can't be sanctioned if one of those dirty, smelly, North Americans wears that God-awful camouflage clothing, sheesh
If I decide to shoot ipsc. I should get permission to count it at PT for work. then show up in full army issue battle rattle. Lol
MangledMoose
Member
- Location
- Edmonton Alberta Canada
That would be the other reason the rule is writen that way so you could participate in your duty gear same goes for law enforcement
As dumb and as unnecessary as I think this rule is, prior to its inclusion I would have expected to be stopped immediately if a gun had fallen on the ground behind me during a course of fire. I don't care if we know it's a safe gun, I'd still expect to be stopped.
