Is bullet casting killing new buyer interest in the L-E?
- Thread starter steelgray
- Start date
For the price of most military surplus, you can get a a modern bolt action with a warranty in a caliber that actually has large manufacturing support like .308, 30/06, .270 etc.. What used to be a cost effective way to get a hunting rifle, that shot decent enough ammunition to put down most game in Canada. Is now an expensive, gamble. Is the barrel still good? Is the stock got hair cracks? Does it even shoot well with all it's age and wear?
A quick look on the EE and I'm seeing them going for $1000 dollars and some of them look in piss poor shape. When I got into this sport about 4 years ago, I saw some for around $750. Even at that price I recognized that it wasn't worth spending the money on a rifle from two world wars ago, that may or may not shoot good in an old ammunition that is lacking industry support. When I can just go out and spend that money on literally any brands sub $1000 rifles. Like I can get a Mauser-18, savage Axis, Ruger American, or a Mossberg. The list is long.
Now that they aren't an economically viable choice for those looking to not spend too much money, they have no reason outside collecting a military surplus rifle or the love of history to be on the shopping list of new shooters. These popular military surplus platforms IMO only stayed popular due to their prices. They made them viable as cheap options that you gave to your kids or grand kids as a starter rifle. Or was cheap enough a young person could afford it. The ammunition was plentiful and cheap, the rifle cheap and available. Now that the .303 is lacking manufacturing support and expensive, and the Rifles are now expensive and hard to find. They will go the way of other surplus rifle types of the past, and be relegated to collector status.
I honestly see the market for worn out old military surplus rifles collapsing in Canada, and with it their prices. There will all ways be rare ones, and ones in great condition worth their money. But for the most part what modern hunter, or sports shooter is going to waste $1000 or more on rifles that get outperformed by $500 dollar guns. Both in terms of features but also group sizes.
On the topic of reloading and casting bullets. All my friends who hunt or sports shoot live in apartment buildings. Casting bullets in that environment is hard. Reloading anything right now is stupid expensive. Another reason people avoid old calibers that lack manufacturing support, as it's to pricey and time consuming to make their own, and it's to pricey to buy it off the shelf.
A quick look on the EE and I'm seeing them going for $1000 dollars and some of them look in piss poor shape. When I got into this sport about 4 years ago, I saw some for around $750. Even at that price I recognized that it wasn't worth spending the money on a rifle from two world wars ago, that may or may not shoot good in an old ammunition that is lacking industry support. When I can just go out and spend that money on literally any brands sub $1000 rifles. Like I can get a Mauser-18, savage Axis, Ruger American, or a Mossberg. The list is long.
Now that they aren't an economically viable choice for those looking to not spend too much money, they have no reason outside collecting a military surplus rifle or the love of history to be on the shopping list of new shooters. These popular military surplus platforms IMO only stayed popular due to their prices. They made them viable as cheap options that you gave to your kids or grand kids as a starter rifle. Or was cheap enough a young person could afford it. The ammunition was plentiful and cheap, the rifle cheap and available. Now that the .303 is lacking manufacturing support and expensive, and the Rifles are now expensive and hard to find. They will go the way of other surplus rifle types of the past, and be relegated to collector status.
I honestly see the market for worn out old military surplus rifles collapsing in Canada, and with it their prices. There will all ways be rare ones, and ones in great condition worth their money. But for the most part what modern hunter, or sports shooter is going to waste $1000 or more on rifles that get outperformed by $500 dollar guns. Both in terms of features but also group sizes.
On the topic of reloading and casting bullets. All my friends who hunt or sports shoot live in apartment buildings. Casting bullets in that environment is hard. Reloading anything right now is stupid expensive. Another reason people avoid old calibers that lack manufacturing support, as it's to pricey and time consuming to make their own, and it's to pricey to buy it off the shelf.
large rifle primers
Easy there, I just happen to love both Model T's and Enfield's.
I hope I'm still breathing, cuz I also have a 1930 Model A Ford and a sheet load of Enfield's.
Lol sorry, should have said something like "many of the people that did are gone". You, indeed, appear to still be alive.
I'm certainly not saying that there aren't enough used L-E available for sale to the next generation of shooters! Instead I've stated that ...
"Chances are that the shift away from the Lee-Enfield away from being everyone’s gun to a platform for bullet casting hobbyists has seriously reduced demand for factory ammo and even .311 jacketed bullets."
The point is that, with all the casting by old guys, the demand for factory ammo - and even .311 projectiles - has collapsed, and the manufacturers of factory ammo and reloading bullets, for this caliber, have left the market. PPU is the exception. Young people will never be induced to buy a gun that they can't get factory ammo for or even reloading bullets.
There will be exceptions, but generally bullet casting is a thing for old people, with WAY too much free time on there hands.
Besides this, young people generally are in living conditions where the can't cast bullets - and even if they could, the appeal isn't there because young people care a lot more about personal health, versus perceived toxins.
The World would be a better place if people would give the L-E a boost by demanding that retailers carry 303 British ammo and .311 projectiles and if those who can afford it would vote with their wallets and buy the factory ammo and 303 reloading components that are out there. I know where PPU factory 303 ammo can be bought for under sixty buck a box (less that some 308 fodder). So buy the bloody stuff, if and when you can.
"Chances are that the shift away from the Lee-Enfield away from being everyone’s gun to a platform for bullet casting hobbyists has seriously reduced demand for factory ammo and even .311 jacketed bullets."
The point is that, with all the casting by old guys, the demand for factory ammo - and even .311 projectiles - has collapsed, and the manufacturers of factory ammo and reloading bullets, for this caliber, have left the market. PPU is the exception. Young people will never be induced to buy a gun that they can't get factory ammo for or even reloading bullets.
There will be exceptions, but generally bullet casting is a thing for old people, with WAY too much free time on there hands.
Besides this, young people generally are in living conditions where the can't cast bullets - and even if they could, the appeal isn't there because young people care a lot more about personal health, versus perceived toxins.
The World would be a better place if people would give the L-E a boost by demanding that retailers carry 303 British ammo and .311 projectiles and if those who can afford it would vote with their wallets and buy the factory ammo and 303 reloading components that are out there. I know where PPU factory 303 ammo can be bought for under sixty buck a box (less that some 308 fodder). So buy the bloody stuff, if and when you can.
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Why do you think it's bullet casters that have caused a shortage? Ammo and components have been in short supply for a number of years now- for all cartridges, not just 303. Are bullet casters causing the shortage of 300WSM factory ammo too?
I was at a gun show six months ago, there were lots of LE for sale. If you don't like the price, buy an SKS. The people who bought them fresh out of surplus don't owe you anything. If you don't like the market price of components, don't buy them. Other more economical hobbies might be better suited for you. Shooting is not free nor cheap.
The general surplus of LE war rifles stopped coming out of greasy crates 30 years ago, and the people that purchased them are in their +50s. So its not not like its a thundering bolt of wisdom to say that the older shooters have them.
The general surplus of LE war rifles stopped coming out of greasy crates 30 years ago, and the people that purchased them are in their +50s. So its not not like its a thundering bolt of wisdom to say that the older shooters have them.
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- Location
- Nova Scotia
Have you maybe thought the reason people started casting because the price of factory ammo is too much? Who gonna pay 60-80$ a box, for 303.
And didn't campro start making 303 bullets for us? Then thinking of making flat based. So why would a Canadian bullet company start making 303 bullets, if there was no market for them?
And didn't campro start making 303 bullets for us? Then thinking of making flat based. So why would a Canadian bullet company start making 303 bullets, if there was no market for them?
$80 for 20 rounds. How many cast bullets can I reload for $80 ? A lot more than 20 rounds. And the people I sell my bullets to think the same way. Mostly the under 30 crowd buying, ones with families trying to save some money.Anyone blaming bullet casters for not being able to find or afford 303 ammunition has to be pretty stupid. All ammunition is currently in short supply not just 303.
How many have stopped shooting because you can’t find ammunition or components? I haven’t stopped, I laid a supply in. Over 4000lbs of lead so my bullet supply is in my hands not a company in another country. Biggest reason I cast is I have control of supply.
How many have stopped shooting because you can’t find ammunition or components? I haven’t stopped, I laid a supply in. Over 4000lbs of lead so my bullet supply is in my hands not a company in another country. Biggest reason I cast is I have control of supply.
Ok you have my interest
looks like your using 5.56mm cases for the jacket
one day once I retire and have a little more time...
I haven't shot an animal with these bullets, but they are pretty danged accurate at 200 ,meters!
Chinchaga also makes some , which are accurate as well.
Cat
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
The lee enfields will still be around you can buy a sporter for cheap and still put food on the table.
Biggest issue is ammo availability that said I’m under 30 have always enjoyed the lee and will continue to reload for it and possibly hunt with it.
I think one of the major issues is there’s this idea in peoples heads that the .303 is weak and not suitable for big game same goes for the .30-30 both of these rounds have taken more game in Canada then anything else.
Biggest issue is ammo availability that said I’m under 30 have always enjoyed the lee and will continue to reload for it and possibly hunt with it.
I think one of the major issues is there’s this idea in peoples heads that the .303 is weak and not suitable for big game same goes for the .30-30 both of these rounds have taken more game in Canada then anything else.
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- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Well some people are buying it, everytime I’m in a gun store and chatting with the staff they have said even their expensive boxes of .303 have sold. Same with 30-30, I’ve been trying to find a couple boxes for a friend and I haven’t seen a box of factory 30-30 ammo in the last 1-2 years. Seems like anyone shooting either of those two cartridges bought everything up as soon as they clued in that shortages were on the way, can’t say I blame them either.
Campro did make .303 bullets but from what I gather they have discontinued them, I guess the demand for more common bullets is greater unfortunately.
The stuff is out there, You just need to look. For example:
Yes, its a Canadian source - and a CGN sponsor. Hint: CS*.
Yes, its a Canadian source - and a CGN sponsor. Hint: CS*.
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- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I’m good thanks, I’m a buy it when I see a deal kinda guy. I’ve been putting away .303 factory ammo and components for awhile, .303 is definitely not something I’m in a panic over.
I started loading for IPSC shooting in 1986 and guess what, in those days we shot lead. I have loaded lead in, .38 Spl, .38 Super, .44 Magnum, .45 acp, in 6.5x55 (Mauser M1896), .30/30, (1901 mfg Win M1894) and .30-06 (US Army Rifle of 1917). Lead is cheap, so I get more rounds down range for dollars spent. 1,000 .38 LRNFP projectiles at $90.00/1,000. Try comparing the cost of 5,000 gas checked lead round nose at $140.00/1,000 to the cost of 5,000 jacketed 6.5x55mm projectiles. Yes, I'm old, my pension $ucks so I have to be diligent how I spend my money, because those low information voters in Ontario and east keep electing a moron for Prime Minister.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
So, not everywhere they sell it for that price. Then you gotta factor in shipping, which can almost be the same price as the ammo. For 80$ I can get a sleeve of primers, bullets. Make more than just 20rds.
