Is it me or does my gun not like my reloads?
- Thread starter g3arhead
- Start date
high case fill can give good groups, but high pressure may not
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Depends on the powder.
I don’t know if its funny or not, but I find the same thing especially at longer ranges.
Its not that surprising that powders tend to burn more consistently at the pressures they were designed to run at. Few powders are designed for reduced loads, though some are more tolerant of low pressures than others. H4895 comes to mind.
Good rifles are supposed to shoot, you shouldn’t have to conduct a witch craft ceremony to get them to. A good bullet, with powders well known for excellence in that caliber, in a properly chambered quality barrel with a little meat in it, fitted tight and straight into an action with all its lugs touching, and bedded properly into a solid stock and fitted with rock solid mounts and optics damn well better shoot. If it doesn’t try a different bullet or two, and if that doesn’t work the scope and barrel should start being viewed with suspision. An argument can even be made for not using an unknown scope on an unknown rifle because at that point you don’t know if the problem is scope, rifle or loads.
Mostly that isn’t what happens, people shoot hundreds of rounds trying to make their barrel wiggle right, hoping to cure gun problems on the reloading bench
Help yourselfHa! that right there is sigline worthy LOL Luv it
His Tikka has a very deep throat, with lots of freebore. Seating depth likely won't change much.
OP, you say the Sako factory loads shoot .4 moa.
If you have any left, pull one of the bullets, to check its "form"and weight.
Look for a bullet with similar "form" of the same weight.
You could also weigh the powder charge. Some Sako factory ammo will have the type of powder they used for the commercial offering of the grade of ammo you purchased. It's a place to start.
When you shoot at your target, zero at 100yds.
Then you need to check velocities. If you don't have something to do this, you can extrapolate, by shooting specific distances, say 300 yds, and measure the drop. This will give you a measurment to calculate or go online and look at trajectory charts published by the manufacturer of your bullets. Some manuals will have these charts for specific bullet weights.
You will want to set up a "regulation load." This load will use a bullet of the same weight and form as the Sako, with a powder charge of your choice, that will duplicate the trajectory/velocity of the Sako round.
This will give you a point to "tweak" your loads.
1.5 inch groups with some cup and core bullets may be about as good as the bullets are capable of. Jacket thicknesses may not be as consistent as more expensive or better constructed bullets.
1.5 inch groups on your first attempt is pretty good IMHO. Good for you.
You may also want to check your loaded cartridges for run out. This can be an issue. Take your loaded cartridge, lay it on a very flat surface and roll it with your hand, while watching the bullet tip for wobble.
Tikka T3 rifles are generally tack drivers, or at least shoot acceptably well.
I would try increasing the powder load you posted by one full grain, don't touch anything else, and shoot again. Load "5" rounds.
Then load five more cartridges with 1/2 grain more powder, and shoot.
Do this with a box of cases, over 20 rounds. Tweak from the tightest group.
You don't mention your barrel profile, so allow your barrel to cool to ambient temperatures after shooting the cartridges in the magazine, which is usually 4 rounds for the T3.
Don't try to shoot groups from a hot barrel, then set your scope settings. Always set your scope for the game your shooting.
It sounds like the 308Win is your hunting rifle. When hunting, a game animal won't give you the opportunity to shoot until your barrel warms up.
One other thing to check out, is the parallax in your scope.
You can see this when looking through the scope at the target, then move your eye up and down. If the reticle is moving, you have a parallax issue. This will only take care of 1/4 - 1/2 inch of your group.
My turn to guess.
I’d say if you’re rifle shoots factory well it should shoot as good or better with reloads. I think bear hunter touched on it, you’ve got a runout problem.
When you start to seat your bullet, especially flat base, it will tent to bind on one side of the case mouth before it slides in.
Start the bullets a wee bit, then lift the handle and give the case a half turn in the shell holder before it’s fully seated. Maybe even bump it down a few times easing the bullet in. It becomes habit.
Seating in a single stroke no bueno with the run of the mill dies I use.
I’d say if you’re rifle shoots factory well it should shoot as good or better with reloads. I think bear hunter touched on it, you’ve got a runout problem.
When you start to seat your bullet, especially flat base, it will tent to bind on one side of the case mouth before it slides in.
Start the bullets a wee bit, then lift the handle and give the case a half turn in the shell holder before it’s fully seated. Maybe even bump it down a few times easing the bullet in. It becomes habit.
Seating in a single stroke no bueno with the run of the mill dies I use.
So I am of course chamfering the case neck, inside and out. The loaded ammo appears concentric , at a quick glance. Don’t have tools to verify how much runout there is.
I’m using old school Bonanza 308 FL sizing die and seater. Not sure if it makes much of a difference.
Runout can be an issue, depending on the shooting venues you are into.
If your eyes are good enough, with or without glasses, to see tip wobble, it's pretty simple to judge.
If you really have to look hard to see it, there won't be much to worry about, unless you're looking for one hole groups.
I will warn you ahead of time, "IF" you decide to go down the "Rabbit Hole" of one hole groups, you need very deep pockets, must be anal about every detail, and very competitive.
Some rifles just aren't capable of shooting tight groups. If push comes to shove, if you have an off the shelf rifle that will shoot sub moa groups, with handloads, you've got a "jewel."
If you've really won the lottery and have a rifle that will shoot a couple of brands of available commercial loads, or even one, you've got a "Unicorn."
With today's CNC epquiment making components for firearms as well as components for ammunition, "jewels and unicorns" come along more often than they used to, but they aren't the norm.
High end manufacturers are finding it more and more difficult to stay ahead of the competition, due to the tech available.
There was a time, not that long ago, when a firearms manufacturer depended on the skill sets of their trades people, and other staff involved in the manufacture of the firearms they put out in the LGS/Big Box stores.
All of that has changed.
The CNC machines/tooling, if kept in good condition, will turn out precise duplicates of every component that are so close, micrometers can be set by them.
The secret to accurate firearms is "tight tolerances" being adhered to, combined with good quality materials throughout.
These days, you definitely get what you pay for.
So, if you're chasing one hole groups, you need components and equipment capable of shooting those groups.
Unfortunately I have zero friends into reloading. Here's what I'm working with and what my process is thus far.
Sizing:
Lee Challenger Breech Lock press. Bonanza FL 308 sizing and seating die. Hornady shell holder.
I got some Federal cases off a guy from EE last year, and did an initial resize so that they will fit inside a case gauge. They're all wet tumbled.
I made DIY case wax using lanolin oil and 99% alcohol. I spray this into a plastic bag, toss the cases in and mix. Then I wait a few minutes, and go to resizing.
Using a Hornady Comparator kit, I verify that I bump .0002-.00025.
I wipe off the lube using a towel.
Trimmed to 2.005 (or as close to this as possible) using Frankford Arsenal trimmer (the one that goes on a drill). The necks get chamfered inside and out every time. I trim the entire batch of 50 once I have 1 case which exceeds 2.015.
I then move onto to priming, where I use a Lee bench primer. I seat primers just a touch below flush (just using my finger to verify).
Charging the case:
I've got an old Pacific powder measure. I throw a charge that is approximately my desired charge weight, and I am measuring with a Dillon eliminator beam scale (I believe this one is made by Ohaus). I then trickle up to desired charge weight using Frankford Arsenal trickler, and toss the charge into the case (slowly, so I don't get bridging. I find that going slow generally allows me to fit more in).
Seating bullets:
I have a dummy round that I've made with the desired bullet and desired COAL, so that I can easily set up the bullet seater quickly to desired COAL.
I put the case into the shell holder, and while holding the bullet in place, I move the ram. I don't give much thought to how it's seated. I just move the ram up till it stops. I verify COAL after. I don't have bullet comparators yet, and I'm aware that the bullets I'm using will not all be perfect and equal length, thus creating some variance in COAL.
To determine what loads to use, I'm going off Vihtavuori online manual as well as Hornady. My starting charge will be middle of what the recommended is, then I increase in increments of .3 grains. I might make 6 different loads. I typically don't get to max, as it's not my priority to get max velocity, just desired accuracy.
COAL is just whatever the book suggests. Haven't played with seating depth.
What the heck and I doing wrong here?
Sizing:
Lee Challenger Breech Lock press. Bonanza FL 308 sizing and seating die. Hornady shell holder.
I got some Federal cases off a guy from EE last year, and did an initial resize so that they will fit inside a case gauge. They're all wet tumbled.
I made DIY case wax using lanolin oil and 99% alcohol. I spray this into a plastic bag, toss the cases in and mix. Then I wait a few minutes, and go to resizing.
Using a Hornady Comparator kit, I verify that I bump .0002-.00025.
I wipe off the lube using a towel.
Trimmed to 2.005 (or as close to this as possible) using Frankford Arsenal trimmer (the one that goes on a drill). The necks get chamfered inside and out every time. I trim the entire batch of 50 once I have 1 case which exceeds 2.015.
I then move onto to priming, where I use a Lee bench primer. I seat primers just a touch below flush (just using my finger to verify).
Charging the case:
I've got an old Pacific powder measure. I throw a charge that is approximately my desired charge weight, and I am measuring with a Dillon eliminator beam scale (I believe this one is made by Ohaus). I then trickle up to desired charge weight using Frankford Arsenal trickler, and toss the charge into the case (slowly, so I don't get bridging. I find that going slow generally allows me to fit more in).
Seating bullets:
I have a dummy round that I've made with the desired bullet and desired COAL, so that I can easily set up the bullet seater quickly to desired COAL.
I put the case into the shell holder, and while holding the bullet in place, I move the ram. I don't give much thought to how it's seated. I just move the ram up till it stops. I verify COAL after. I don't have bullet comparators yet, and I'm aware that the bullets I'm using will not all be perfect and equal length, thus creating some variance in COAL.
To determine what loads to use, I'm going off Vihtavuori online manual as well as Hornady. My starting charge will be middle of what the recommended is, then I increase in increments of .3 grains. I might make 6 different loads. I typically don't get to max, as it's not my priority to get max velocity, just desired accuracy.
COAL is just whatever the book suggests. Haven't played with seating depth.
What the heck and I doing wrong here?
That's awesome to know that the Speer Hot Cors are capable of doing that. I'd love to do that one day; unfortunately my home range is 300yd max!
Yeah, ultimately my goal is 1. Create a load which can shoot sub-moa. I'm not chasing the one hole groups per se, just something that can be as good or better than a factory load (not that Sako factory load; 0.4in is nuts. I was shocked when I shot that). Just hoping for a 1inch group at 100yards.
2. Learn more about the process of reloading so I can be a better shooter as well.
I like the process of reloading and learning but, still looking to get married, buy a house and all that jazz. Not about to drop thousands on extravagant presses, dies or all the rest. Would be nice though!
Just for clarity is the .40” group something you can do all the time; or it something that happened once? The way you chose your words make me wonder.
