One further thing :: Since you've been moving the turrets all over, you should RE-CENTRE them. Mechanically they could be wayy off, maybe even started that way causing some of your probs. Run the turrets All the way end to end counting the cliks, then centre by cliking one-half the way back.
Is my Weaver scope bad??? Cabelas Savage Axis
- Thread starter Wis3guy
- Start date
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Try sand bagging it when you are bore sighting, as you could be moving it without knowing.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Not certain that I understand what re-centering the scope will do for OP??
I have "centered" scopes - but that was when I was fussing with shims under the bases - to get the scope lined up with what I could see through bore for bore-sighting it. But once bases are torqued down, rings torqued down, I thought objective was to get cross hairs pointing to similar place as barrel was sending the bullets. That might be multiple clicks left/right or up/down or both. So I am not real certain what "centering" the scope adjustments will accomplish - AFTER the bases and rings are torqued down? Perhaps to indicate how well or poorly the base holes had been aligned on the receiver when they were drilled - how straight or crooked the barrel has been threaded into that receiver - I am just not sure. Maybe the barrel locking nut is loose and the barrel changes it's position easily?
An acquaintance uses an elderly Bausch and Lomb scope that has no turrets - he refers to the process as "collimating" - is all about filing or shimming the receiver and/or the bases to get that scope aimed where the barrel is pointed. His idea is to use minimal scope turret adjustment - from "centre" - on the ultimate permanent scope - to get it hitting "on". I think that was the WWII process used by H&H to set up their No.4 T rifles. Might be a lot of fussing about something most will not care about.
I think that I have one scope dead or dying - rifle and scope came to me from CGN - in pieces - so might have been multiple purchases (?). Metal is Parker Hale 303 British No. 1 - Custom grade styling - I used a Parker Hale side mount and Parker Hale rings to mount an elderly Bushnell 2.5 power scope - the rifle got what I think is a Parker Hale Custom grade stock set - for a No. 1 - made by SILE. I thought it was looking "nifty". After short range shooting to confirm "bore sight", then at 100 yard targets - first group of 4 (?) were sort of a clump - low - below the aiming point. So I ran the clicks to raise the group - it did - but holes also moved to right. As I continued to shoot without further scope adjustments - the holes just kept walking more or less to right - last shot I took was right off the right side of the paper - so like 6" or 7" to right of the aiming point.
Is in back of my cabinet now - rifle's action bedding went wonky, barrel channel now touching barrel, scope died - I do not know - I never did go back to it to figure out its issue(s) - one of those "one day" type projects. In those days, I certainly shot enough to know, for sure, that I was not increasingly pulling each shot - is about no way, I thought, that I could have missed an aiming point by 7" from seated position at shooting table, shooting off of sandbag rests. If I consider the last shots as a "group", that group would be perhaps 2" high and the holes spread perhaps 5" or 6" wide - with first holes at left side and last holes at right side - whereas first "group" of four shots was about 2" high by 2" wide, with holes appearing about random order - so I think something broke, or something changed, during that session.
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I’m going to agree with Potashminer on this one. I’ve heard of guys doing this with a scope on a mirror, not attached to a rifle, to see if the crosshairs are actually tracking. But once the scope is attached to the rifle I don’t necessarily want my crosshairs centered in their travel. This would be especially true if I was using a 20 MOA rail. In a perfect world my windage would be centered, and my elevation would actually be in the lower quarter, as that would give me maximum elevation for my scope, without bottoming out.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
You can also do that "mirror trick" with the scope mounted on the rifle - get the small mirror and lighting correct - through eyepiece you see both the cross hair and its reflection - if you click on turrets, you can get the reflection directly behind the cross hair - just see one - at that point, I am told that your cross hair is optically "centred" in the lenses.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I generally pull apart a new gun and do a good initial inspection and cleaning, since I have the action out of the stock I re torque to factory specs, same with bases/rail as well as rings when I mount the optic. Then I bored sight it at about 50y, once I’ve done all that I’m pretty happy with my baseline and I go sight in. It’s always on paper at 50y and I can adjust as needed, then I move out to whatever distance I’m going to zero it for.
I do the same thing. First thing that happens is I give the entire gun a disassemble and a major cleaning.Then put everything back together with the proper Torque settings. I also use a scope mounting kit to get the thing as centered as possible. So far haven't had to bore site once, using one of those.
That loose ring is your main problem probably. You should be using a Torque screw driver to properly put the tightness to factory recommended. Just having things tight doesn't mean things are where they should be. Having a stock not properly torqued can lead to less accuracy. And having scope rings at different amounts can also lead to inaccuracy as you have all ready found out with the rear scope mount. Never trust factory work, it's shoddy, and Savage isn't known for the best out of the box work. But even high end firearms can come not sighted in, or with poor mounting.
Best to redo all of them, to proper factory recommended ft lbs. That means, the ones that attach the stock to the receiver. Removing the rings, and scope from the rings and putting the bases on, then the scope, and top rings. Making sure to evenly on both sides of the rings tightening to proper ft lbs.You want the gap on the rings on both sides to be the same or as close as you can get.
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Lots of good input here, thank you.
I am going to look into a torque driver. I have an inch pounds torque wrench, but it is mechanics style. I never even thought that being snug, and one being more snug than the other, could also cause a problem.
I take my guns apart when I buy them to clean them, but so far taking apart has at the most been pins on some, nothing involving tightening or torqueing.
In my range trip, I wasn't even able to get the barrel hot- between every shot that was way off, I probably spent 5-10 mins removing bolt, bore sighting, screwing with scope, etc. etc., so I don't think the barrel heat could have been an issue.
Lastly, I was thinking about how far off my scope might be now with all the back and forth adjustments I made on the turrets. Maybe restarting might be an idea as well...
I am a newb, and appreciate the respectful input. I appreciate the opportunity to learn through my own experience and that of others to guide me forward so that I can avoid these situations in the future.
I am going to look into a torque driver. I have an inch pounds torque wrench, but it is mechanics style. I never even thought that being snug, and one being more snug than the other, could also cause a problem.
I take my guns apart when I buy them to clean them, but so far taking apart has at the most been pins on some, nothing involving tightening or torqueing.
In my range trip, I wasn't even able to get the barrel hot- between every shot that was way off, I probably spent 5-10 mins removing bolt, bore sighting, screwing with scope, etc. etc., so I don't think the barrel heat could have been an issue.
Lastly, I was thinking about how far off my scope might be now with all the back and forth adjustments I made on the turrets. Maybe restarting might be an idea as well...
I am a newb, and appreciate the respectful input. I appreciate the opportunity to learn through my own experience and that of others to guide me forward so that I can avoid these situations in the future.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I’ve had a buddy come up hunting one year, before we went out on day 1 we went to the range to confirm zero. He’s an experienced shooter and groups were all over the place, he noticed his rear ring was loose and he re torqued it and all seemed well. Fast forward a few days later after driving around in his SxS and hiking, he shoots a 3x3 wt buck around 75-80yds. point of aim was a broadside heart/lungs shot, it drops like a stone. When we got up to it it was hit in the spine straight above the vitals, his rear ring was loose again. So it definitely contributed to accuracy issues, mm’s of play at the gun turn into feet the farther out you get.
Scopes are just thrown on these by groundhogs, claim to be bore sighted, I would never trust a factory package rifle to have the scope mounted properly.
Now I don't buy factory package rifles either, but if I did that would be the first thing I would take off and reassemble. No different then checking stock screw tension on a new or used rifle, taking it all down, disassembling the bolt, full inspection/cleaning/lube, I always go over every new or used rifle thoroughly before shooting.
Now I don't buy factory package rifles either, but if I did that would be the first thing I would take off and reassemble. No different then checking stock screw tension on a new or used rifle, taking it all down, disassembling the bolt, full inspection/cleaning/lube, I always go over every new or used rifle thoroughly before shooting.
I do similarly I've been having lots of friends and family drop off their new package rifles to show me and I always pull the scope, rings, and bases and pull the barreled action out of the stock. Degrease and oil up all the metalwork, reinstall the action and torque to spec. Degrease the fasteners and re-install the bases and rings with correct torque. Luckily my basement is big enough to laser bore sight to 30 feet, and that gets me within an inch or two at 25 yards.
I find if I'm 2 inches low on the laser then it prints pretty close to that at 25, and close to dead-on at 100 which helps keep the ammo costs down when sighting in (because they never seen to bring ammo with them).
I've always had at least okay accuracy out of the Axis package rifles. Usually no diamonds in the rough but always "usable" accuracy. The scopes are junk optically and the tracking is pretty whacky but I've never had one not zero, and I've always been able to hand the rifle back to someone with a target and say "if you missed you either dropped the rifle or suck at shooting".
I have seen those cheap scopes work fine for 40-50 rounds, then crap out suddenly, with no warning.
I can completely confirm a loose ring/mount entirely shifting my POI from my POA specifically on a Savage Axis rifle.
Savage Axis XP .308 Win Left Hand - Factory Trigger - MDT LSS First Gen Left Hand Chassis - Witt Clamp On Brake - Magwedge 20MOA Picatinny Rail - Nikon Bushmaster 2 4-12 in one picture but swapped it for a Bushnell Banner 2 6-18 Scope - Ergo Grip Tactical Deluxe Palm Shelf Grip - Caldwell Bipod - Magpul ACS Stock - Howa Slip On Bolt Knob Cover.
Proper torque specs and leaving loc-tite to cure for a full 24 hours is a must on top of what you said how ATV's and SxS's shake everything loose real well.
Here is one of my 100 yard targets I was using to get dialed in, the rear of the scope base started to come loose on me and you can see the point of aim to point of impact shift very evident in the upper right corner.
Norinco .308/7.62x51 surplus ammunition shoots great out of my rifle, the grouping just above the tape measure consist of 5 shots and the shifting group was 10 shots.
The included Bushnell 3x9 with a Savage Axis combo leaves a lot to desire but I will say the one I took off my .223 Axis back in 2014 is still holding up just fire with over 15K rounds fired through it with the majority being 7.62x39, .223 and .308 Win.
I bought my .223 Axis combo back at Wholesale sports in 2014? for just over $300 as it was the display model everyone put their dirty mitts all over and that rifle will shoot the same hole all day no matter how hot you get the barrel.
Another pig but a lot less lipstick, Savage Axis .223 Rem Right Hand - Factory stock - Factory Trigger - Harris Bipod - CTKPrecision #MPOD1 - Magwedge 0 MAO Rail - Redfield Revolution 3-9x Scope.
You have a very solid course of action for mounting your optics and I can confirm DEGREASE EVERYTHING is a must have when getting things installed properly.
The factory Bushnell optic does leave a lot to desire but in the same sentence if you damage/destroy that optic its not a huge loss, I'm still using the Bushnell 3x9 that came with my .223 Axis in 2014 and luckily it has held up to my neglect over the years.
Wait wait, I’m here…… whew thank god! I’ll tell you though, the axis might be a POS but I’m of the opinion it’s a better buy than a tikka so that should make you happy!
I'm a little late to the party here, but i had a 7mm-08 with one of those weaver package scopes on it. It shot fine, held up to the recoil fine, nothing to complain about it...
Until the first time i was using it at first light while hunting. Normally with good glass you can see better through the scope/binoculars than with the naked eye. This time around i could see a deer plain as day with my eyes but had a real hard time picking it out in the scope, it just didn't collect the light like a better scope does.
I'll still use it on a range gun, or something i don't plan to use at dawn/dusk, but for a deer rifle it's a no go.
Until the first time i was using it at first light while hunting. Normally with good glass you can see better through the scope/binoculars than with the naked eye. This time around i could see a deer plain as day with my eyes but had a real hard time picking it out in the scope, it just didn't collect the light like a better scope does.
I'll still use it on a range gun, or something i don't plan to use at dawn/dusk, but for a deer rifle it's a no go.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
A loose scope ring will definitely do it. Its kinda like asking if a loose wheel will effect a cars driving.
I'd start from scratch. Remove scope, rings, and bases, then put all back on with a drop of locktite to make sure theyre held in place.
Another tip, if you arent hitting the target and youre fairly certain you should be, stop shooting until you figure out the problem. Youre just wasting ammunition at that point.
I'd start from scratch. Remove scope, rings, and bases, then put all back on with a drop of locktite to make sure theyre held in place.
Another tip, if you arent hitting the target and youre fairly certain you should be, stop shooting until you figure out the problem. Youre just wasting ammunition at that point.
