Is Price Haggling Gone from Gun Buying

3macs1

3macs1

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Nova Scotia Canada
Maybe it is just me but I have been out of the purchasing of firearms for almost 7 years getting back into it this past september.
What I am finding is that it is almost impossible to get a lower than the posted price for any gun listed by a shop or dealer. Rifles being worse than shotguns. At one time you could get free shipping at least but not now. Now you get well either take it as listed or it will sell on the internet in a few days??
Not to mention at one time I would say OK used is used so I will go 75% of new cost, now I find many listings are 90% or more of new cost and still selling.What gives??:(
 
I agree - I like finding a good deal as much as the next guy, but the dealers I have been visiting seem to have the take it or leave it perception. I would honestly enjoy buying guns more if there were deals to be had, its just fun
 
On the NEW side of the house, let me tell you that it is a simply matter of economics. As a dealer, you MUST stock X number of dollars of manufacturer M's product. Same as X, Y, and Z's. That is a fair bit of overhead to carry. Then wages, then rent, other types of overhead. Usually the price asked is a fair price based on what the dealer is paying. When it isn't, go elsewhere. I have never haggled on any new purchase. I usually know the price from several other places first. I ask the price, if I don't like it I say thank you and leave. If it is far more than any other place I have checked, i will let the seller know that that same thing is available at BBB outfitters for $$$. Often times the seller gets upset and I have gathered valuable info...don't go back there and soon someone else will be renting that building.
I never could understand haggling. I don't do it. If I ask a price for anything, it is because I feel it is a fair price and the item is worth it. If you don't want to pay that for it go away! Shipping costs money.
However, I must agree with you on the used items comment. The posts here in the EE are often inflated beyond new! If a person hasn't done their shopping around and research, then they can get rooked. See, when I buy used, it is used. NOT new. Same as a car...buy it new, drive it off the lot and you just lost 25% of the value of the car. It is no longer a virgin. Not worth as much. Most times, I can buy the same rifle through Cabela's, shipped to my door, for the same of less cost than buying "used, never been fired" (hah!) on the EE. I don't care if it is still in the sealed box with the postman delivering it as I sign the deal. IT IS USED, better lower the price. There is a local retailer here who greatly inflates the value of his guns in his shop, he could do this becasue he was the only one around for quite some time. Unfortunately, he still sells guns to people but only once. I dropped in the other day (he sometimes gets some rare stuff on trade) to hear him lament to a customer how hard it is to sell even used stuff these days. Fewer and fewer people are buying guns today. I told him that it was actually that fewer and fewer people are buying guns from him today because there are better places nearby now to do it. He asked me to leave.
 
Normal used to be that a dealer jacked up his price 10% from regular retail price so he could give you a 5% discount. People weren't sophistcated enough to know they were still paying more than full retail but they were happy because they got a "discount".

Now the internet has educated the masses - anyone smart enough to operate a keyboard can research prices across Canada with a few keystrokes. Dealers are more inclined to offer their BEST price right from the start to be competitive.

It might seem to you that there are less deals now, but actually you're just not getting screwed on the original asking price as was apt to happen 25 years ago.
 
fuse said:
There may be less room to negotiate now as well. With increased internet sellers the margins may have dropped leaving less room to wiggle.
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Maybe but are they cutting it that close. I have been watching a rifle at a dealer since Sept , kind of a odd ball caliper and it has not moved nor has the price changed.
I finally last week offered 800 on a 829 listing and it was no thanks. That shocked me.
 
I worked at a gun store. The markups on many rifles are about 10%. That means a dealer is only making 70 bucks on a $700 rifle. Not very much when you factor in overhead. If you want deals ask them to throw in some accesories. Slings, case ect. These are high markup items that the dealer will be more willing to throw in or give at a discount.
 
cam1936 said:
I worked at a gun store. The markups on many rifles are about 10%. That means a dealer is only making 70 bucks on a $700 rifle. Not very much when you factor in overhead. If you want deals ask them to throw in some accesories. Slings, case ect. These are high markup items that the dealer will be more willing to throw in or give at a discount.
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Good suggestion but I am not sure on the 10% for used trade ins. I watched one of my $550.00 trade in's relist for 850 two days later and sell the same day. Talk about kick my ass for trading so cheep.
 
I have stood on both sides of the counter and today smaller shops often do not often make over $50-75 on a new gun sale. And consider that if a single rifle or shotgun is ordered in by the shop then his shipping is usually $30-35.00 dollars for this item. Now suppose he gets in a rifle that wholesales for $800.00 and has a suggested list of $995.00 Our retailer marks his at $925.00 indicating that he has marked it at $75.00 below suggested retail. Now the customer presents him with a "value added" credit card like an airmiles card. The cost to the merchant is a little under 2% on a ordinary card but on a value added card it is almost 4%. And this 4% gets paid on the goverments tax share as well. With taxes the rifle is over $1000.00. Therfore $40.00 in credit card fees.Plus the $35.00 for shipping. He is left with $50.00 for processing the sale and no other overhead charges have been assessed againt the sale yet. If the customer haggles for a box of ammo thrown in or a free guncase he is losing money on the sale.
He has to hope that he is going to sell a few accessories such as sling,scope,ammo,etc. to make a few bucks on the deal.
Firearm inventory is like duck decoys. You need it to get ducks but you can't eat them.
A smaller shop offers service that hopefully can offset the few dollars saved at a big box outlet. The setting up of the rifle and scope mounting is usually included in the price which doesn't happen in a mail order transaction.
Depending on your own skill levels having these services available locally may justify paying a bit more to support your local dealer.
 
3macs1 said:
Good suggestion but I am not sure on the 10% for used trade ins. I watched one of my $550.00 trade in's relist for 850 two days later and sell the same day. Talk about kick my ass for trading so cheep.
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The markup on trade ins is always huge. Thats why I recommend that nobody trades in there firearm to a dealer. Take a week or two and sell it on gunnutz. The exception is Armco, they give you a very fair price for a trade in.
 
Usually 60% of value on trade ins. Dealer has to make something or why be in business?

Let's face it, a dealer who sells just guns would starve to death today if that was their only income. There is no big money in selling just guns even if you mark it up high. Any large dealer today is successful only if they have fishing, camping and RV accessories on the lot as their main business. Most of the small time dealers/smiths are already on pensions or other part time incomes to supplement.

LeBarons, Epps, Canadian Tire, Bass Pro, etc have a smaller counter in the back or downstairs for firearms only.

Getting a "free" box of shells was worked into the deal back in the day. The dealer would work it into the price tag.
 
This is probably the wrong place to suggest this, but I hope it isn't looked at as a hijack- bear with me...
Knowledge is power; in terms of any marketplace, if the buyer and seller have equal knowledge then the price of any good or service reflects its "real value" to both parties. So the internet has been a powerful resource in terms of informing buyers about prices of goods & services, but I suggest a lot more can be done by individuals who happen to have information about the costs of goods, markup practices etc. Use twitter, Facebook, forums such as this to share your knowledge. I do NOT wish to destroy the livelihoods of dealers or their employees, but neither do I want to be taken to the cleaners by unethical, greedy liars. Fair profit isn't a problem, gouging is.
 
On my last 2 out of 3 purchases I've negotiated the price. Typically, when selling things I leave a bit of wiggle room, unless I'm looking for a fast sale, and then the item will be cheap enough already.

I agree, if a store has had something in stock for months at an inflated price, there is nothing wrong with making an offer. My local stores aren't really that great though.

Edit: Of course, making offers on items with small markups is not reasonable. Some of the local places here still try to charge $1200 for a pistol that epps sells for $839, so there needs to be some sort of negotiation there if I'm not going to buy online.
 
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Dealers do not dicker anymore because they do not inflate prices. If you ask any dealer to put a 40% margin one a gun and give you "deal" or something for free, they would be happy to. However they are at around 15-20%. As far as dealers making such a killing on certian items, the answer is yes, sometimes they do make alot of money. To those who take offence to dealers making a good living, I would like to ask you a question.

If I was to offer you a job that had about twice the stress as any goverment job, no benifits, plenty of risk , would you take the job for 30-40K a year? Theres another catch too, you would need to tie up between half and a million dollars of your own money to get this job. Does it seem unreasonable that a gun dealer will make a good living at this job?
 
Frontier Firearms said:
Dealers do not dicker anymore because they do not inflate prices. If you ask any dealer to put a 40% margin one a gun and give you "deal" or something for free, they would be happy to. However they are at around 15-20%. As far as dealers making such a killing on certian items, the answer is yes, sometimes they do make alot of money. To those who take offence to dealers making a good living, I would like to ask you a question.

If I was to offer you a job that had about twice the stress as any goverment job, no benifits, plenty of risk , would you take the job for 30-40K a year? Theres another catch too, you would need to tie up between half and a million dollars of your own money to get this job. Does it seem unreasonable that a gun dealer will make a good living at this job?
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Understand so would it not make good business sense to take 800.00 for a used firearm you have had sitting since sept for 829 and not sold???
I know interest rates are low but?? Some of it is just the principal I am convinced, some dealers set a price and that is it. Right or wrong, high or low. Plus I am finding out more and more some of the people in this business now should not be since they know very little about what they are selling or the products they distribute.
Went through a simple conversation three weeks ago. Can I get the price in camo, nope it is not made in camo. Oh well they list it for 2010 in camo also on the manufacturer's site. Two days later a price on a camo model.Exact words wish I had known that a few months back I could have sold a pile this year in camo.
 
Like has been mentioned, there's barely any markup on firearms. It's great to in a deal online but you havnt seen the rifle. It's easy to get burned with a lemon or even to order not quite what you want. If you wanna pick it up and play with it before hand there's gonna be a cost to that. You can find deals at places like wholesale sports sure, after waiting around 15 minutes at the counter to even be asked if you need something. Plus in my experience most big outfits don't have the expertise the small shops do. A small dealer will probably be willing to swing a deal but with the little markup on guns or ammo, try scoring your deal on gear or a scope even, buying as a pair is a good way to get a discount on something at least. Being a nice guy and chatting trying to find a deal as opposed to demanding a better price cause this place sells em for whatever price but never stocks them, or the online site that you don't get to actually see their stock. Show a little love to the local guys man
 
^^^ What he said.

Having sold guns for many years, I can honestly say that I had no desire to give a "new" customer a deal on a firearms simply because he started spouting off about better prices at dealer X and store Y half way across the country. But, when loyal customers returned, who had bought many things before (and who also came in the store just to say hi on occasion) I would make sick deals that were the lowest prices in the country. Sometimes we would barely be making $20, but it was our way to say thank you for staying loyal and supporting the local store.

Also, I can't remember how many times someone complained about our prices that were (on occasion) $40-$50 higher than elsewhere... and then come in with their new gun and scope (purchased online) and expect us to help them mount and sight it it. No thanks... call your online dealer and get him to help you with that from 2000kms away.
 
I bought my CX Storm ( non Restricted) from ### store earlier this year and the guy was able to knock off nearly $75.00 off the asking price and included a spare magazine as well.
Flip side was shipping ate $45.00 of the savings on the original price...
you win some and you loose some.
As for knowledge and internet based value, has anyone tried to sell a really high end (expensive anything) and got near what it really is worth ?
One is lucky to get 65-70% of the original value of the item we are trying to sell.
It is all about supply and demand.
Just my .02 opinion this fine cold West Coast morning,
Rob
 
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