is synthetic engine oil ok for gun lub??

fuzzynuts54 said:
If anyone really thinks gun oil is really any different than automotive oil, I've got some snake oil to sell you. It is marketing and nothing more. Some are simple re-bottled and re-labeled industrial/automotive lubricants and some are a hodgepodge of solvents/oils/dyes to give a unique trait that fools the buyer into beliving they have purchased a scientifically developed formula from NASA for space guns.

A light synthetic engine oil with a hi viscosity index (in engrish... Good quality synthetic, 0-25, 5-30 will be thin enough at low temps and still give protection at high temps) is all you need. This stuff IS scientifically designed. It is designed for an environment that is much much much harsher than your firearm could hope to create.

How often do you change the oil in your gun, every 500-1000 cycles?
Well there is 5000 times more "potential" metal to metal contact in a motor, each square inch of that is in constant rotating motion and 2-10 000 times PER MINUTE of thousands of kilometers between changes. Each piston has 4 rings that scrape the cylender walls 1200-1400 times a second as you idle. The 4-32(depending on engine) Lifters and cam lobes contact each other under
hundreds of pounds of force thousnads of times a minute for thousands of kilometers.

Then there's transmission fluid, it's environment is extremely tough as well. All that power getting to your wheels is transmitted by about 2 gear teeth at a time, a surface area smaller than a chicklet, tens of thousands pounds per square inch of force trying to create metal to metal contact, yet that thin ATF remains a constant buffer.
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Nice post and good conclusion for ALL THE WRONG REASONS!
Gas engine stress harsher than gun ?
Gas engines seldom go over 200PSI. Compare this with 60000PSI in a rifle.
Engine bearings are pressure-lubed. Firearms are just lubed with oil that runs off...
Cylindrical transmission gear teeth don't rub (see Involute Gear). Therefore the tranny-oil is only stressed in the bearings. No real need for detergents or fancy additives here. Hence the incredibly long tranny flush intervals.

But then again, I searched a lot and couldn't find any magic gun lube formula. Engine oil should do just good.
 
legi0n said:
Nice post and good conclusion for ALL THE WRONG REASONS!
Gas engine stress harsher than gun ?
Gas engines seldom go over 200PSI. Compare this with 60000PSI in a rifle.
Engine bearings are pressure-lubed. Firearms are just lubed with oil that runs off...
Cylindrical transmission gear teeth don't rub (see Involute Gear). Therefore the tranny-oil is only stressed in the bearings. No real need for detergents or fancy additives here. Hence the incredibly long tranny flush intervals.

But then again, I searched a lot and couldn't find any magic gun lube formula. Engine oil should do just good.
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I started to write a reply to this, but I decided against it. I think you should review your material again and make some corrections.
 
fuzzynuts54 said:
Blah, Blah, Blah... I use Lukas 15w40 on the bolt and triflow on the hammer pivot in robams xcr... 4000 rounds between cleanings, through hellish abuse and yes i mean hellish from -34c...... blah, blah, blah
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Yeah, right........We all know the copious amounts of Loctite needed to keep the XCR running wouldn't survive in -34c weather........:D:D
 
My opinion is that for the amount the vast majority of shooters lube is lube. You could use crisco and the gun will run till you clean it 1000 rounds later. Is a quality synthetic motor oil better? I'd say so given that Mobile1 is guaranteed to pour at -40C and has had piles of cash put into R&D. How many firearms lube manufacturers have the same level of sheer dollar power invested in their products as a major oil company like mobil or Castrol? My guess would be somewhere in the range of zero.
 
I still shrug at people who swear by grease. It just seems like a total mess to me.

I clean with Mpro7 products and lube with Slip 2000 EWL or 5W20 Mobile One if I am out of Slip.

I used Militec for a while but when hot it smells like burnt hair so I now avoid it.
 
MilitecVersusCLP.jpg
 
Grease is preffered by the guys who CARRY so it doesn't stain their clothing.

Range use and competitive shooting - oil is all one needs.
 
dizzy said:
My mistake, I thought I said grease is designed for use in High Seed and High temp environments, not High heat and High pressure environments. Grease is ideal when two conditions are present, which rarely occurs on most firearms. The misconception about firearms is the amount of lubricant they need. they don't need near as much as many think, which is why oil is a good lubricant. I would use grease if I had to, but why do so when oil may be better? To say grease is the best, is not quite true, that's all.

When you have time, study that dirty grease when it comes out of your firearms. You won't be so fast to make the claims you make. It contains a lot more crud than you could imagine. Think about it.
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I'm not debating the fact that grease and debris are usually found together. What I'm debating is the fact that a greased rifle will STILL be lubricated, whereas an oiled rifle will be dry and likely not running. Some guns may run dry, but all guns run wet.

Using grease does not mean you have to(or should) slather the rifle in it. Applied properly, it is far more effective at remaining in place and thus lubricating the system than oil. Carbon debris and the like collect on dry internals almost as much as wet ones, so why worry about what is or is not going to collect? The debris that is suspended in grease will move during operation unlike the caked/baked on sh*t in a dry firearm.

I've been running grease for about 5 years now without a single stoppage. The grease is still in place when I clean the rifles, and most of the crud wipes right out if its collected on a lightly greased surface. I also don't use your off the shelf grease for wheel bearings or the like. I actually contacted Jet-Lube products and had a lengthy email discussion with one of their techs as to what they would recommend for my use. The answer was Jet-Lube AP5
http://www.jetlubecanada.com/pages/AP-5.html

TDC
 
There are lots of opinions on lubrication of firearms but what is fact or fiction or outright bulls**t.
I made my mind up after reading this article. Lubrication 101.
http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html
 
Here's some formulas for a few popular gun lubes, all the whimis forms for all the lubes are available online also, do here's a few of these scientifically developed lubes for your hi-tech space cannons.... Ed's Red
*1 part Dexron II, IIe or III Automatic Transmission Fluid - GM Spec D20265 or later
1 part K1 Kerosene
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits federal spec TT-T-2981F (CAS# 64741-49-9) or Stodard Solvent/Varsol
** * * * (CAS#8052-41-1)
1 part Acetone (CAS#67-64-1)

Eds Red Plus
11 ounces of basic Ed's Red
2 ounces of 10%-20% industrial strength ammonia
2 ounces of Rustlick WS-11 cutting oil or suitable alternative
1 ounce of Murphy's oil*

"Humpy's White Bore Cleaner"
2 parts - 10% ammonia,
1 part - standard household "sudsy" ammonia (optional)
1 part - Ivory liquid dishwashing detergent

Mac's Red
1 part Dexron II, IIe or III Automatic Transmission Fluid*
1 part K1 Kerosene
1 part Mineral Spirits or Stodard Solvent/Varsol
1 part Acetone
1 part GM Carburetor/Upper Cylinder Cleaner

Slick Stuff
2 parts Dexron II or III automatic transmission fluid
1 Part Mobil-1 Synthetic Oil, 30 weight, or 10W-30
1 Part STP Oil Treatment (the stuff for "old" cars w/ over 30,000 mi.)

Amsoil
Amsoil Synthetic ATF, lanolin, MS Moly Arctic Grade 67

Ed's Red Oil
50/50 mix of ATF and K1 kerosene. *
 
Gunnerlove said:
I still shrug at people who swear by grease. It just seems like a total mess to me.

I clean with Mpro7 products and lube with Slip 2000 EWL or 5W20 Mobile One if I am out of Slip.

I used Militec for a while but when hot it smells like burnt hair so I now avoid it.
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Where are you getting the Slip 2000 from?
 
Came from a US Army test.

Part of the debunking of the Snake Oil garbage that permated after the Jessica Lynch 507th Debacle.


Grease -- works well on some applications, but especially with suppressed weapons will gather up too much crap, the crap that an oil will allow to move out of the way.
 
KevinB said:
Came from a US Army test.

Part of the debunking of the Snake Oil garbage that permated after the Jessica Lynch 507th Debacle.


Grease -- works well on some applications, but especially with suppressed weapons will gather up too much crap, the crap that an oil will allow to move out of the way.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I wish I had that problem..

TDC

ETA: What's the story behind the Lynch rescue?
 
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