Is the 16 dead?

X-man said:
My local Canadian Tire (rural Newfoundland) carries them, as does several local Polaris dealerships (also sell guns & ammo).

I love the 16. Got a beauty Fox SXS and a nice Stevens 311 SXS. I keep my eye out for a classic Remington 870 pump. Hopefully one of these days I'll come across one when the "mad money" has not been spent for that month.

I'll be hunting with the Fox 16 this fall bunny hunting. Federal is still making 16 ga. ammo suitable for upland game. Winchester stuff seems to be harder to come by in 16 ga though...
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I have a Fox model B , a 311 ,an 870 and an old J Manton hammer gun. Will Bilozer has lot's of supplies so I reload for it .You should see his 16 ga dangerous game slugs.
 
Yep there's that Gold Label again. That they dropped it is bordering on tragedy.

Called both Canadian Tires in Kamloops this a.m., neither had any 16, behaved as though they'd never heard of such a thing. Perhaps it's a regional thing. There's twenty big game gunners out here for every shotgun bird hunter.

But finally scored at Wholesale Sports. Means a two hour drive each way, but at least I found some.

Thanks to everybody who tried to help me out, it's appreciated. After more than a month of watching my little Brno on the wall, will finally get to put it thru it's paces. There's not a lot as much fun as wringing out a new gat.
 
vega said:
Yep there's that Gold Label again. That they dropped it is bordering on tragedy.

Called both Canadian Tires in Kamloops this a.m., neither had any 16, behaved as though they'd never heard of such a thing. Perhaps it's a regional thing. There's twenty big game gunners out here for every shotgun bird hunter.

But finally scored at Wholesale Sports. Means a two hour drive each way, but at least I found some.

Thanks to everybody who tried to help me out, it's appreciated. After more than a month of watching my little Brno on the wall, will finally get to put it thru it's paces. There's not a lot as much fun as wringing out a new gat.
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I'm sure you know this, but some of the older 16 Gauge's were chambered for 2 1/2" shells while most of the factory stuff now (Winchester, Federal) is 2 3/4".
 
I have two 16ga, a BPS and a Fair, seams to be plenty of 16ga ammo about in Northern Alberta, ft Mac, Tofield, Lac la Bich, even Canidian tire in Fort Mac carries It,
Had to get into hand loading to make my own Non-toxic shot.
Just finished a shoot in Alberta took 60-70 geese and about 10 ducks in 3 days, took the 12ga as back up, but with ITX and hevishot hand loads didn't feel underguned at all.
Expensive too shoot non-toxic but only way to go, much less crippling of birds,
I believe that each shot gun bore has a optimiam shot load, yes you can poke more in the sheel but this increases the shot string. A blanced shot gun and load are very important in wing shooting.
 
Thanks Cory, I did know this. My first 16 was handed down from my Dad, and ancient Belgian double. Back then we didn't know about such things as shell length, but that old girl fired hundreds of rounds of 2.75 without complaint. And, the Brno is well stamped at 70mm.
 
Also southern man, what you say about shot string is very much worth noting. That's one reason a 16 is better than 20 ballisticaly given an equal weight of shot.
 
Southernman...

It is made by Voere, 2 3/4in 16ga with modified choke which is a nice bonus over a full...I'm a huge .222rem fan as well, already own 2 rifles in triple deuce...pleasant round to shoot, super accurate.

It'll be a real handy small game combo, one of those guns that actually gets used...just about perfect!

If you PM me with your email address, I'll send you some pics, nice slim gun.
 
I live in the Shuswap (in BC), and I can get 16 gauge stuff almost everywhere. Even picked up a couple boxes of slugs last year, left the Savage SxS 16 gauge and a box of slugs in the trailer as a camp gun.
 
Ahhhh, the quintessential 16 gauge debate. This one's been beaten to death more times than the abortion debate in Ottawa. Despite the thousands of posts on the subject, it doesn't seem like anyone has changed their minds based on these discussions.

For the record: I'm a fan of 16 gauge. I currently have 6 in my collection. I don't buy for one minute the argument that a 12 can do everything a 16 can, nor that a 20 covers the whole "light and lively" end of the spectrum better than any 16 gauge.

I big part of the problem with a discussion such as this is that each of us has experience with different 12, 16, and 20 gauge guns. I suspect we might find more common ground if we were comparing the same models of guns (apples to apples, as it were).

Last week, I was fortunate enough to spend the entire week in the uplands. For the trip, I brought 7 guns - three 12 ga, three 16 ga, and one 20 ga. We were in an area that offers ruffed grouse, sharptail grouse, and Hungarian partridge. At least one bird was taken with each gun (not significant, but small things amuse small minds :redface:).

Roughly half of my 16 ga guns are vintage pieces, so I only feed them Gamebore 2 1/2" low-pressure loads. I solved my ammunition availability problem years ago by buying a flat of Federal 6-shot (2 3/4" nitro) and a flat of Gamebore (also 6-shot, but more like 7 1/2 in North American shot sizes). I also have small amounts of 16 gauge in other shot sizes left over from hunts over the years.

My take on 16 gauge viability is that proponents of this gauge are fewer but more passionate than those of other gauges (probably because it's one of the few gauges that must constantly be justified to the naysayers). Their enthusiasm is contagious, so the gauge is growing in popularity - no longer shrinking.
 
Well said SS. Had my new to me Brno ZP 45 out yesterday, put the first ever rounds through her on clays, came home with one Ruffy. I've also had several ZP 49's over the years, the same gun in 12.

The only ammo I was able to get hold of is 11/8 over 31/4 drams, which is exactly the same load I use in my 12's. So, in this case it was as apples to apples as you can get, and I found the 16 to be nicer handling, svelt and very ergonomic for my build and just somehow provides a much more fulfilling aesthetic and better functioning weapon.

Don't want or need to change anybody's minds, just kinda been wondering why it has fallen by the wayside for so long. Nice to hear it is experiencing a revival, not the least because of the putatively increasing availability and variety of ammo that must surely follow.
 
straightshooter said:
For the record: I'm a fan of 16 gauge. I currently have 6 in my collection. I don't buy for one minute the argument that a 12 can do everything a 16 can
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Well, do you buy the argument that a 16 can't do everything a 12 can???

I do know that 7/8 oz. loads shoot very well in a 12, and for me lighter shot charges simply aren't necessary when the light end of the upland mix I hunt are (hopefully) in the day's program. And when 12s can be had weighing well below 7 lbs, just how much lighter will a 16 get me over a 12? In my mind, if your heart warms to a regular diet of shot charges lighter than 7/8 oz and/or you simply must have something significantly lighter than something like the aformentioned 6.5 lb Gold Label, then I think it is time to start looking at 28 gauges. But then, they are a rough proposition for an all around field gun.

Or, perhaps to look at the whole thing in another way, just what won't a 12 do that a 16 will?

I big part of the problem with a discussion such as this is that each of us has experience with different 12, 16, and 20 gauge guns. I suspect we might find more common ground if we were comparing the same models of guns (apples to apples, as it were).
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No, I think that is part of the problem as well. Starting with the fact there are few 16's on the market right now where you can compare the 12 and 16 gauge versions. One of the few that immediately comes to mind is the Browning BPS. With the same 28" barrel length, it weighs 7 lbs 11 oz in the 12 gauge persuasion, and a still hefty (by upland standards) 7 lb 2 oz in the 16 gauge version of the same shotgun.

I think both defenders of the 12 and 16 gauge would argue that those kind of specs don't present the very best virtues of the gauge they are wedded to. The point is, there are clunky and delightful versions available in all gauges, right down to the smallest bores. And that's before you even begin considering that a diehard duck and goose hunter may have a very different idea of how much weight they want in a gun pounding out heavy magnums all day than an upland hunter who spends his day trudging up and down hills hunting chukars.

I suspect some shotgunners are hard core gauge loyal, some simply buy a shotgun (usually of the 12 gauge persuasion) and say "good enough" without discerning further. And some of us find shotguns that just seem to whisper wonderful things as they come to shoulder and swing, and gauge becomes secondary over fit and feel. I would be among the last group...
 
The 16ga is still quite common in europe, has fallen by the wayside is north america and all areas supplies predometaly by north american arms companys, I suspect that there is less waterfowl shooting, requiring larger payloads in europe. might be some of the reason.
16ga once had about 30% market share must have something about right as i havn't meet many older generation that wasted money on usless unnessary equipment.
 
Rick said:
Well, do you buy the argument that a 16 can't do everything a 12 can???
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Yes, I agree that 12 gauge is a far better all-around gauge than 16. However, in my opinion, this is a result of ammunition availability, not the potential of the gauge. If your question had been "Do you buy the argument that a 16 can't do everything a 12 can, provided the appropriate shells are available", my answer would be different. That being said, hypothetical ammunition doesn't carry or shoot as well as the real thing, so the answer to your actual question remains that generally speaking, the 12 gauge is more versatile (and cost-effective).

For me personally, I have 16 gauge shells for any purpose (except slugs) that I'll ever need. I can field a 12 or a 16, regardless of the quarry, without compromise.


Rick said:
Starting with the fact there are few 16's on the market right now where you can compare the 12 and 16 gauge versions. One of the few that immediately comes to mind is the Browning BPS. With the same 28" barrel length, it weighs 7 lbs 11 oz in the 12 gauge persuasion, and a still hefty (by upland standards) 7 lb 2 oz in the 16 gauge version of the same shotgun.
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This actually serves to illustrate what I was trying to describe. You see, the weight of the Browning BPS in 16 ga is incorrect on Browning's own web site. When contacted, they admitted the mistake and said that the 16 ga version will weigh closer to the 20 ga than to the 12 (the 16 is built on a scaled 20 ga frame). But, this is only one example. Some 16 gauge guns weigh more than some 12 gauge guns (ask Ardent about his Ruger Gold Label). Conversely, some 16 gauge guns weigh much less than a 12 gauge - closer to the weight of a 20.

There's a wide range of weights for 12 gauge guns. Same for 16 or any other gauge. And, that's only weight. What about balance, barrel regulation, LOP, patterns, and I could go on and on. While none of these characteristics have much, if anything, to do with the gauge, they all impact our personal opinions on the various gauges, depending on our personal experience, or lack thereof, with specific makes and models.


Rick said:
I suspect some shotgunners are hard core gauge loyal, some simply buy a shotgun (usually of the 12 gauge persuasion) and say "good enough" without discerning further. And some of us find shotguns that just seem to whisper wonderful things as they come to shoulder and swing, and gauge becomes secondary over fit and feel. I would be among the last group...
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Agreed. And, I suppose this is as it should be. Two pieces of advise that I was given when starting out were instrumental in forming the criteria that I use when buying shotguns.

The first was to buy(evaluate) the gun in your hands - not the make and model. This makes total sense. Guns are like cars - every manufacturer makes good ones and bad ones. Vehicles(or guns) of the same make and model can be very different one from the other and, if used, can have been used or abused and/or maintained in very different ways. I bring this up because, unless we're both talking about the same 2 guns, any comparison between guns or gauges can turn into an exercise in miscommunication.

The other piece of advise I was given related more to collecting than just shooting. I was told that there are too many types of guns, countries of origin, models, grades, calibers and gauges, etc., etc., that a person should really decide where their interests lie and concentrate on that(those) area(s). It was this very piece of advise that led me to decide to collect 3 gauges: 12, 16, and 20. I don't own a single 10 ga., 28 ga., or .410 (nor any of the now obsolete gauges such as 4 gauge or 14 gauge). There's nothing "wrong" or "inferior" about any of the gauges I don't collect - I simply don't have bottomless pockets. Even though I have opinions about and experience with the gauges I don't collect, I avoid entering discussions about them because I don't feel I have the breadth of experience with them to fully contribute.

These forums are great for hearing others' opinions, but I have to remind myself that we have members who are virtual firearms encyclopedias, and we have members who don't know squat. Both are free to post whatever crosses their minds. Now and again it helps to consider the source.

Rick, I believe we agree on the essential points. I responded to a couple of your questions, but my ramblings about comparing guns and who's doing the comparing have nothing to do with you. I included them only in case someone is being influenced to buy or not to buy a 16 ga, based on this thread.

In general, I wouldn't recommend 16 gauge guns to new shooters or people who only want a few multi-purpose firearms. For those who have the basics covered and want to try new stuff, a well-built 16 on a properly scaled frame can be a great addition to the fold.
 
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