Is this an antique or a prohib?

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orangemushroom

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I saw this listing on EE for a " Lefaucheux Style" revolver, apparently with the pre-1893 belgian proof marks.

He says "This is a Belgian made open frame revolver made in the Lefaucheux style. It bears the pre 1893 proof mark so are unquestionably antique. This design is is often chambered in Pinfire but this is a centerfire. It is a 320 converted to 32 acp which is not a prohibited caliber. It works well in both single and double action with good lockup. The barrel is 3 1/4 inch, the bore has a couple minor pits with good rifling. This is transitional design when gun makers were moving away from pinfire to centerfire which makes it a neat peice of history. "

The problem is 32 ACP was obviously invented after 1898, the antique cutoff date. And because of the 1893 proof, that would also be after the gun was originally made.


I found this other thread here about 32 ACP in an antique revolver, which left me with a couple questions https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2130405-32-ACP-in-antique-status-revolver?highlight=32+acp

So I wanted to check with you guys a couple things first before moving ahead:

1) Is it safe to fire 32 ACP from a 320 revolver? I did some research after seeing the previous thread, it turns out 32 ACP has a neck diameter of .335 and 320 revolver has a diameter of .320, so that's quite a lot of material removed from the cylinder walls

2) If i wanted to get an antique verification letter, how could I prove to the RCMP that it was originally 320? Apparently 32 ACP interchanges with 32 S&W, with the main difference being rim thickness and size (which is why 32 ACP can be fired from a 32 S&W revolver Like in this youtube video by Luckygunner). Are they going to think this was originally and always was a 32 S&W revolver?


When I messaged him saying I wanted to make sure it was possible to get an RCMP letter, he said "I have shot it with 32 acp handloads. It would be Firearm Reference Number (FRN): 16476. It would not be difficult to get a rcmp letter for it. It is easily proven that it was made prior to 1893 based on the ELG."

Well it took me some time to search through that giant PDF file, and I found out the 16476 only lists pinfire revolvers... when this one clearly has a centerfire cylinder (no pin slots) and hammer... Not to mention half of them listed are classified as "Prohibited"

Wanted to check with you guys for an unbiased opinion first, since the seller would obviously has a financial stake in transaction. Is this a too-good-to-be true kind of deal and I should just run away? Is there any sort of way to verify accountability when looking for antiques in the future?
I'm scared for myself of accidentally buying a prohib, but also scared that people like this might ruin the antique status classification exemption for us who are just trying to get started with collecting...


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Here's the "research" i did from wikipedia, it seems like 32 ACP and 32 S&W are both .335" head/neck diameter, while 320 revolver is a actually .320"

Does anyone know if lefaucheux made 32 S&W revolvers in that time period? Cause if he didn't then I would feel more confident with buying it
 
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I would be very hesitant to buy it as an antique because for the last 2 or 3 years, perhaps longer, the RCMP have been saying that the gun has to have been made as an antique. Point being that they would probably class the 320 revolver cartridge as a variant of the 32 S & W. Additionally I would be hesitant to shoot 32 acp shells in the gun because of mechanical strength and finally, it would not surprise me to see a number of modern cartridges such as the 32 acp added to the antique exemption list.

cheers mooncoon
 
KotKotofeich said:
I think we had no clear conclusion on this revolver in the thread you reference... https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2130405-32-ACP-in-antique-status-revolver
Click to expand...

Yeah the other one looks similar, but it's different, since it has external cylinder stop notches, while this one has cylinder stop cuts. So they're different.
And i guess he was able to sell that other one since I don't see the ad on EE anymore... hopefully whoever he sold it to can chime in.
 
Would this seller be insured for one of these guns blowing up in your hands after it was shot with his recommendation of modern cartridges? I don’t think any insurance company would cover that.
 
Ask him to get an RCMP letter ... its easy to do so, he even said that ... then you know what you are buying etc.

He has better antique revolvers 4 sale - just saying ...
 
Recently there was a discussion about the status of a pre '98 revolver which had been altered to use currently available cases.
It was sold as an antique.
The new owner tried to get the antique letter from the RCMP; send in photos, etc. The RCMP refused antique status. Fortunately, the barrel was over 105mm in length, so he was able to register it as restricted. Had it been under 105mm, he would have lost it.
There is a whopping difference in value between an indifferent revolver that has antique status and one that is restricted.
If a RCMP antique letter can be easily obtained, why doesn't the seller get it?
Personally, I think that paying a huge premium for a nondescript piece just because it currently qualifies as antique is a bad idea.
I would not touch that piece with a 10 foot pole. Antique status might or might not be recognized. If it isn't, its a prohib. The seller can get the paper if he believes that it would be so easy. It has also been altered to accept modern ammunition and could well be dangerous if fired with standard rounds. That is asking for trouble, if not now, certainly in the future.
 
I have one of those in 7mm pinfire. Its a very odd and weak design. I would not shoot smokeless out of it. Id try just a magnum primer and a round ball or load the acp with real black powder if it was me. I bought it to convert but i scrapped that idea after i had it in hand.

I bought a 32 rim fire and sleeved the cylinder and barrel for 25acp that i load with black powder. But i have shot smokeless in it. But not factory rounds. Just reloads at about 600fps

As for the law. I wouldnt suggest breaking it but i also wouldnt get my self into a situation i needed to explain it or have someone question it.
 
It is a 320 converted to 32 acp which is not a prohibited caliber

Um, yeah, actually it is.

(a) that has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length or that is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge; and
 
tiriaq said:
Recently there was a discussion about the status of a pre '98 revolver which had been altered to use currently available cases.
It was sold as an antique.
The new owner tried to get the antique letter from the RCMP; send in photos, etc. The RCMP refused antique status. Fortunately, the barrel was over 105mm in length, so he was able to register it as restricted. Had it been under 105mm, he would have lost it.
There is a whopping difference in value between an indifferent revolver that has antique status and one that is restricted.
Click to expand...

What would happen to the seller in a case like that? Isn't it illegal to transfer a restricted to someone without getting an ATT first...?
 
If the .320 caliber is not stamped on the side then it is Impossible to prove it was originally chambered in .320 and not 32 short colt or 32 smith and Wesson. Makes it not a legal antique. If it was originally produced in a caliber that is not on the no go list it can legally be changed to any other caliber that is not on the no go list. That barrel length rule and 25 or 32 caliber prohib rule does not apply to antique status revolvers.
 
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It is definitely antique, those are old. No need to get an RCMP letter. Don't sweat it. The RCMP knows that, or get FRT printout, very easy. But those are not strong either, so very light loads, not factory.
 
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