So I'm starting my own thread on the Israeli M1 carbines I recently picked up from CGN dealers and will do some updating here on what I actually got, and what I'm doing with them.
As a recap, the first rifle was a full wood Inland. I had ordered it requesting to not get an M2 stock, but of course they shipped it with the rattiest M2 stock I'd ever held. Luckily, I'm not new to restoring military wood stocks (actually I have a LOT of experience with that...), and I was able to make it passable. Despite being an M2 stock, it was actually a walnut M2 lower made by Winchester with a sub-contractor-produced 2 rivet walnut handguard, and while I am unsure if it will stay on the rifle, it was worth restoring.
So the first rifle turned out to be a Dec 43 or Jan 44-produced Inland (4.88M, start of this production block, with 12-43 barrel) that definitely went through a thorough post-war rebuild. It left the factory with a flip sight (I can see the old locating chisel marks) and got a stamped adjustable sight post-war. The only real Inland parts still present are the receiver, rear sight (made by an Inland sub-contractor, even if it did not come on this rifle when it was new), and the slide (which will need the tab re-welded soon, I think). Lieterally every other part was from another manufacturer, which is not so uncommon for a refurb. The serial number was re-stamped forward of the sight, common on earlier receivers that were refurbished, as the new rear sights obscured the original placement of serial numbers.
Here are some shots of it after I restored the stock and cleaned up the metal:
Plans for this one (noting the second rifle I ordered is, in my view, nicer and worth preserving), is to install a new criterion non-restricted barrel, convert to push-button safety (I'm left handed), replace the Type 3 barrel band with a Type 2 band (I have a couple of them in the spares bin), replace the stamped rear sight with a better milled inland sight (which would have been used intermittently at the factory in this serial number range). I also have some correct inland parts on hand I'll likely install, just because, including a correct inland trigger group & housing, and an inland dished bolt which the rifle would still have had in Jan 44.
I should mention of course, I do have the correct chamber reamer, receiver and barrel wrench and vise, rear sight pusher, front sight puller, etc. I used to work on these guns a lot, years back. So apart from the barrel (which I have on order), this isn't a massive investment, and it will make this mixmaster much more useful to me.
I'm debating whether to get the parts that need it re-parkerized at Vulcan (I can't do manganese phosphating here) - sadly Nick;s prices have gone way up in recent years, so on the fence here.
I may also install a new Dupage walnut oval-cut low-wall stock. I have one here, and if I go the re-park route, this would make more sense. Thinking about it.
On to rifle No.2...
Rifle No.2 was ordered as a random choate sporter Israeli gun, mostly to see if what turned up would be any better than the first gun, and these are also a couple hundred cheaper. Bought from a different dealer, with no requests - so it was a total roll of the dice. I was pleasantly surprised. The gun that turned up was, predictably, an Inland - it seems all the dealers have inlands left, but really nothing else.
But despite the choate stock, this one turned out to be a non-refurb with a few armorer upgrades dumped into a plastic stock. 5.2M range, making it around a June 1944 gun with a 5-44 barrel. Every part on the gun is correct, and Inland made or a correct Inland sub-contractor. All the parts that are supposed to be blued, still are, and all the parts supposed to be in the white still are. It's not even parked at the chamber mouth or under the front sight. A rather lucky find, I think. Having researched everything, all that's been done to the gun since it was made was:
-put in choate stock with a random Standard Products recoil plate
-button safety changed to flip
-type 2 band changed to type 3 (but an Inland one, at least). Type 3 bands didn't leave the factory until around December 44, so it's definitely not original.
Photos as it arrived:
This gun is lower mileage than the first gun I ordered above, and has much less finish wear. It has a correct for June 44 stamped rear sight with original factory staking. Definitely worth some minor restoration, so I went looking for appropriate wood and found a dirty, but promising looking mid-44 inland stock set for sale (HI lower and OI handguard). Pic of it as it arrived, almost black with who knows what oil, storage grunge, etc.:
It cleaned up pretty nice - it's a correct, un-sanded stock for this gun in this serial range, HI cartouche in the sling recess, IO clearly stamped on the HG. It definitely saw service and has the tasteful dings and bruises to prove it. P proof on the face of the pistol grip. This isn't the best photo, but trust me, in hand it looks really good.
Some random shots of a few of the parts:
I'm planning to put it back into as-built configuration. I've already cleaned it all up and re-installed a correct Inland button safety. I need to dig through the bins to find an Inland Type 2 band I know I have but that has proven elusive to find yet, then it'll be back together for some glam shots. I've definitely decided to keep this one restricted - it's too nice to re-barrel I think.
So that's where things stand. I had forgotten how much I liked working on these things and shooting them, to be honest. I had sold off my last M1 carbine years ago, perhaps stupidly.
I'd buy another at this point, except all I can find for sale are either more Inlands (I don't need another!) or dealers saying they won't hand pick manufacturers. If anyone has a cheap isreali folder from another maker they regret buying, let me know what it is. I might just be interested (I have enough parts to convert a couple more back to GI anyhow)...
If anyone else hass some before and after shots of their Israeli surplus carbines, post some shots here!
As a recap, the first rifle was a full wood Inland. I had ordered it requesting to not get an M2 stock, but of course they shipped it with the rattiest M2 stock I'd ever held. Luckily, I'm not new to restoring military wood stocks (actually I have a LOT of experience with that...), and I was able to make it passable. Despite being an M2 stock, it was actually a walnut M2 lower made by Winchester with a sub-contractor-produced 2 rivet walnut handguard, and while I am unsure if it will stay on the rifle, it was worth restoring.
So the first rifle turned out to be a Dec 43 or Jan 44-produced Inland (4.88M, start of this production block, with 12-43 barrel) that definitely went through a thorough post-war rebuild. It left the factory with a flip sight (I can see the old locating chisel marks) and got a stamped adjustable sight post-war. The only real Inland parts still present are the receiver, rear sight (made by an Inland sub-contractor, even if it did not come on this rifle when it was new), and the slide (which will need the tab re-welded soon, I think). Lieterally every other part was from another manufacturer, which is not so uncommon for a refurb. The serial number was re-stamped forward of the sight, common on earlier receivers that were refurbished, as the new rear sights obscured the original placement of serial numbers.
Here are some shots of it after I restored the stock and cleaned up the metal:
Plans for this one (noting the second rifle I ordered is, in my view, nicer and worth preserving), is to install a new criterion non-restricted barrel, convert to push-button safety (I'm left handed), replace the Type 3 barrel band with a Type 2 band (I have a couple of them in the spares bin), replace the stamped rear sight with a better milled inland sight (which would have been used intermittently at the factory in this serial number range). I also have some correct inland parts on hand I'll likely install, just because, including a correct inland trigger group & housing, and an inland dished bolt which the rifle would still have had in Jan 44.
I should mention of course, I do have the correct chamber reamer, receiver and barrel wrench and vise, rear sight pusher, front sight puller, etc. I used to work on these guns a lot, years back. So apart from the barrel (which I have on order), this isn't a massive investment, and it will make this mixmaster much more useful to me.
I'm debating whether to get the parts that need it re-parkerized at Vulcan (I can't do manganese phosphating here) - sadly Nick;s prices have gone way up in recent years, so on the fence here.
I may also install a new Dupage walnut oval-cut low-wall stock. I have one here, and if I go the re-park route, this would make more sense. Thinking about it.
On to rifle No.2...
Rifle No.2 was ordered as a random choate sporter Israeli gun, mostly to see if what turned up would be any better than the first gun, and these are also a couple hundred cheaper. Bought from a different dealer, with no requests - so it was a total roll of the dice. I was pleasantly surprised. The gun that turned up was, predictably, an Inland - it seems all the dealers have inlands left, but really nothing else.
But despite the choate stock, this one turned out to be a non-refurb with a few armorer upgrades dumped into a plastic stock. 5.2M range, making it around a June 1944 gun with a 5-44 barrel. Every part on the gun is correct, and Inland made or a correct Inland sub-contractor. All the parts that are supposed to be blued, still are, and all the parts supposed to be in the white still are. It's not even parked at the chamber mouth or under the front sight. A rather lucky find, I think. Having researched everything, all that's been done to the gun since it was made was:
-put in choate stock with a random Standard Products recoil plate
-button safety changed to flip
-type 2 band changed to type 3 (but an Inland one, at least). Type 3 bands didn't leave the factory until around December 44, so it's definitely not original.
Photos as it arrived:
This gun is lower mileage than the first gun I ordered above, and has much less finish wear. It has a correct for June 44 stamped rear sight with original factory staking. Definitely worth some minor restoration, so I went looking for appropriate wood and found a dirty, but promising looking mid-44 inland stock set for sale (HI lower and OI handguard). Pic of it as it arrived, almost black with who knows what oil, storage grunge, etc.:
It cleaned up pretty nice - it's a correct, un-sanded stock for this gun in this serial range, HI cartouche in the sling recess, IO clearly stamped on the HG. It definitely saw service and has the tasteful dings and bruises to prove it. P proof on the face of the pistol grip. This isn't the best photo, but trust me, in hand it looks really good.
Some random shots of a few of the parts:
I'm planning to put it back into as-built configuration. I've already cleaned it all up and re-installed a correct Inland button safety. I need to dig through the bins to find an Inland Type 2 band I know I have but that has proven elusive to find yet, then it'll be back together for some glam shots. I've definitely decided to keep this one restricted - it's too nice to re-barrel I think.
So that's where things stand. I had forgotten how much I liked working on these things and shooting them, to be honest. I had sold off my last M1 carbine years ago, perhaps stupidly.
I'd buy another at this point, except all I can find for sale are either more Inlands (I don't need another!) or dealers saying they won't hand pick manufacturers. If anyone has a cheap isreali folder from another maker they regret buying, let me know what it is. I might just be interested (I have enough parts to convert a couple more back to GI anyhow)...
If anyone else hass some before and after shots of their Israeli surplus carbines, post some shots here!
