It's here: NEA-15 unboxing photos

Re-read your post.



Yes, there will always be a difference. Even for very loose tolerances, you work in thousandths of an inch.

If the difference in dimensions is too small to see but prevents it from mounting properly, then I'd be very interested in knowing what the actual dimensions are. I also speculated that perhaps it was the mount itself that was not within specifications and causing the problem.

And no, I'm not going off the deep end. :slap:

Let's just say the way you put certain parts in bold gave me the impression you were less informative and more imflamatory. If that's not the case, then I apologize.
 
DMR rifle has a medium profile barrel with a mid-length gas system.

Advantages to the Rifling that we use; it's an 5-groove BUTTON CUT polygonal barrel with a 1:7 twist. Most polygonal barrels are hammer forged, ours are not. Button cutting produces a far superior end product, especially in a poly bore. The 1:7 twist allows you to use a heavier bullet, and choose from a wider range of loads.

Advantages;
- Not compromising the barrel's thickness in the area of each groove as with traditional rifling.

- Providing a better gas seal around the projectile as polygonal bores tend to have a slightly smaller bore area, which translates into more efficient use of the combustion gases trapped behind the bullet, slightly greater (consistency in) muzzle velocities and slightly increased accuracy.

- Less bullet deformation, resulting in reduced drag on the bullet when traveling through the barrel which helps to increase muzzle velocity.
Reduced buildup of copper or lead within the barrel which results in easier maintenance characteristics.

- Prolonged barrel life.
 
Chrome lining is an antiquated process.. it was the best choice of the day.

ARC+ is an advanced form of Ferretic Nitriding. What that process is exactly, we don't discuss other than it's a process being used in the Defense Aerospace sector. It leaves the steel a medium grey finish. It provides an extremely hard surface and excellent wear resistance. It is much harder than chrome in this respect and is not a surface buildup like chrome that leads to inconsistent lining thickness throughout the bore. We can produce our bores to exacting tolerances and they will have the same tolerances after treatment. Chrome requires you to oversize your bore slightly in order to compensate for the chrome thickness.

However still widely used, Chroming is an outdated process.

-edited for lack of sleep- ;)
 
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Chrome lining is an antiquated process.. it was the best choice of the day.

ARC+ is an advanced form of Ferretic Nitriding. What that process is exactly, we don't discuss other than it's a process being used in the Defense Aerospace sector. It leaves the steel a medium grey finish. It provides an extremely hard surface and excellent wear resistance. It is much harder than chrome in this respect and is not a surface buildup like chrome that leads to inconsistent lining thickness throughout the bore. We can produce our bores to exacting tolerances and they will have the same tolerances after treatment. Chrome requires you to undersize your bore slightly in order to compensate for the chrome thickness.

However still widely used, Chroming is an outdated process.

That sounds like the Tenifer treatment used by glock, which is called "Ferritic nitrocarburizing".
 
A couple of corrections/opinions:

Chrome - at least hexavalent chromium used in barrels is not a surface finish, as it bonds with the steel underneath. A proper barrel chroming facility will electro polish the bore - pulling a few 10ths of material in a uniform depth off the barrel, the barrel can then be chromed to the original dimension.

In endurance test barrels, I have yet to see a barrel that is chromed be surpased by a variety of other coatings, as must do not bond with the substruct steel and will flake or peel when heat cycled, (obviious a stellite line is not a coating).
There are a variety of coatings on the market, and while they are superior to chrome in many respects, they also have their downfalls.

I also disagree with you on button rifling -- single pass cut rifling is IMHO superior in term of finish and uniformity without stressing the barrel.
Secondly Cold Hammer Forging, as it presses the steel onto the rifling mandrel, will provide a far superior barrel in terms of strength and endurance.
This is the reason why MG barrels are CHF, and a specific type of Chrome Vanadian content in the resulfated steel.
 
Before I start, I know that Kevin has likely forgot more about this industry that we know. I also value his opinion greatly. Myself, I'm just a dirty ex grunt (from the same unit), that has to rely on the experience and knowledge of those that work with him. Our staff is on the outside looking in and we often make decisions based on their experience and not the norm in the industry. They're the data monkeys.


A couple of corrections/opinions:

Chrome - at least hexavalent chromium used in barrels is not a surface finish, as it bonds with the steel underneath. A proper barrel chroming facility will electro polish the bore - pulling a few 10ths of material in a uniform depth off the barrel, the barrel can then be chromed to the original dimension.

I've seen a few factory chromed barrels that have been tested for uniformity and most were not as uniform as stated. While a non-chromed barrel is generally more even they do suffer from the shortened longevity that chroming provides. I also fear that few rifle companies are having their barrels processed in a proper facility, rather the one that meets their needs within their area. And with dealing with processing houses for a years, it's fairly certain that deficiencies are caused by the processors themselves often overstating their abilities.


In endurance test barrels, I have yet to see a barrel that is chromed be surpased by a variety of other coatings, as must do not bond with the substruct steel and will flake or peel when heat cycled, (obviious a stellite line is not a coating).
There are a variety of coatings on the market, and while they are superior to chrome in many respects, they also have their downfalls.

For the most part I agree, however there are some new processes that have come to light lately that are very exciting. Many of which are just being applied to Arms manufacturing for the first time. Time can only tell. The problem with many of these processes many of the large manufacturers are not willing or able to take a chance on a new process. A smaller company such as ours who's experience isn't in Arms can take that chance based on previous use and experience. Our treatment is a process.. not a coating. We opted to use a system that did not alter our dimensions at all. Combined with the barrel construction it reveals a very nice end product.


I also disagree with you on button rifling -- single pass cut rifling is IMHO superior in term of finish and uniformity without stressing the barrel.
Secondly Cold Hammer Forging, as it presses the steel onto the rifling mandrel, will provide a far superior barrel in terms of strength and endurance.
This is the reason why MG barrels are CHF, and a specific type of Chrome Vanadian content in the resulfated steel.

I agree that this is the case on an apples to oranges comparison. There's a reason why the best bench rifles are sporting cut barrels. .. but few of them keep that accuracy as long. I can make a top-tier barrel with a 1000rnd lifespan, or a really great one with 10x that.

However one of the reasons we opted to process our barrels the way we are is to take advantage of the design of a Polygonal barrel that is not only accurate and consistent, but one with an end result that also provides a very strong product with a long lifespan. The advantages of strength provided with a hammered barrel are lost once we process it. Those same results are then achieved when we process it because it also heat treats and stress relieves the product. So we can then get those effects with a more accurate bore... best of both worlds. We're confidant enough in the process to offer a lifetime warranty.. obviously not for MIL use though. We don't want them used as a support barrel for some keener playing the warranty loop. ;)

I would also argue that a great barrel has less to do with the manner in which it was rifled than with the barrel maker itself, and our barrel maker has an outstanding reputation in the field. When you're provided with a great starting product the rest is easy.

Again, time will tell. It's exciting to be able to play with some of these treatments and processes. I think that the field is just beginning to reap the rewards of all the technology that other trades are now into.


-edit-
.. as well I may have been a little broad and general with my statements in the above posts without qualifying them with the reasoning and background into our specific application.
 
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I agree with you ;)

We've had a lot of hit and miss issues with chroming barrels We've had good luck on some runs, but by and large it can be frustrating.

I doubt as many companies spend as much IRD money as we do for testing, but on the other hand we are looking for a lot of different things on the .gov side than what the commercial market is looking for. Processes or coatings that may not fair well in a high firing shedule in suppressed usage, may do exceptionally well when the peaks of the heat cycle are not as dramatic.

Also I need to re-word a comment above -- the resulphated steel is not CMV, dont know where my brain was on that.
 
Very cool to see some of the technical 'reasoning' behind some of the features on the NEA-15. Perhaps it would be a good idea to throw some of this info on your website for prospective customers and retailers.

Thank you for elaborating.

Looking forward to picking up an 18" DMR when the budget allows.
 
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Very cool to see some of the technical 'reasoning' behind some of the features on the NEA-15. Perhaps it would be a good idea to throw some of this info on your website for prospective customers and retailers.

Thank you for elaborating.

Looking forward to picking up an 18" DMR when the budget allows.


That's a good suggestion. I'm in the process of doing up a tech info/faq section on the website.
 
I doubt as many companies spend as much IRD money as we do for testing,...

If we had what you guys dump into IRD we'd be putting monkeys on the moon for sh!ts & giggles, not making guns. ;)

Because we're new to this field we have to rely on the experience of the engineers that have been cutting ships in the aerospace side of the table for years. Some of what they do translates well.. some does not. Uncle Sam has deep R&D pockets in the defense aerospace sector, we just suck at the teet of that past knowledge and production.
 
By and large the firearms industry is way behind the curve on the S&T side (Science and Tech). With the decline in defense dollars - a lot of those companies are needing to take in work, as the big programs are slipping, thus gun companies are finding either engineers or entire companies that have time and abilities to translate some of the advanced materials.

That said bullets are not rockets or planes, and a barrel with a bullet travelling thru it, is a lot different. However while a specific process may not work in the same manner, a lot can be applied and altered somewhat to give much better results.

I expect the ammuntion side of the house to progress a lot futher in the next 5-10 years than it has for the last 100...
 
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