IVI 9mm, +p or +p+
- Thread starter amstaff
- Start date
I don't know if it is +p or not however I have been told by members of the forces that the Cart 9mm Ball CDN Mk 1 was designed for use in the C1 SMG and therefore is hotter than standard pistol ammo. This cartridge is used in the Browning Hi-Powers and this cartridge is rumoured to be one of the reasons why the pistols in general service are poor performers. This cartridge is not used in the Sigs carried by military police or naval boarding parties.
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum is set at 241.32 MPa (35,001 psi) piezo pressure.[20]
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19 mm Parabellum +P is set at 265.45 MPa (38,500 psi) piezo pressure.
The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at 252 MPa (36,500 psi) where C.I.P. rates the 9 mm Luger PTmax somewhat lower at 235 MPa (34,100 psi). The 315 MPa (45,700 psi) proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm NATO proof test however equals the proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm Luger C.I.P. proof test.
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19 mm Parabellum +P is set at 265.45 MPa (38,500 psi) piezo pressure.
The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at 252 MPa (36,500 psi) where C.I.P. rates the 9 mm Luger PTmax somewhat lower at 235 MPa (34,100 psi). The 315 MPa (45,700 psi) proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm NATO proof test however equals the proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm Luger C.I.P. proof test.
Some production lots of the IVI 9mm are hotter than others. I've heard that at the Ammunition Depot level they try to parcel out the lighter lots
for pistol usage and the heavier for the SMG usage. Of course, the C1 is little-seen in the field today...
I hadn't heard that DND was acquiring any different NATO-spec 9mm ammunition,
so chances are the SIG's are provisioned with IVI ball too...
IVI ball is actually fairly good ammunition (as FMJ goes), but realize that the remaining Browning pistols
in the system are probably over 40 years old. It would be an unusual unit that's very tight tolerances today.
That was one of several factors that motivated the buy of SIG 226's.
for pistol usage and the heavier for the SMG usage. Of course, the C1 is little-seen in the field today...
I hadn't heard that DND was acquiring any different NATO-spec 9mm ammunition,
so chances are the SIG's are provisioned with IVI ball too...
IVI ball is actually fairly good ammunition (as FMJ goes), but realize that the remaining Browning pistols
in the system are probably over 40 years old. It would be an unusual unit that's very tight tolerances today.
That was one of several factors that motivated the buy of SIG 226's.
All NATO ammo is made to NATO spec. Ammo outside of spec is rejected. The last Inglis BHP pistols were made in 1945, 60+ years ago.
Not necessarily true. There are days gone by when military ammo was given away to civilians at matches, and other cases where ammo was sold in the US and re-imported. This is why you'll notice that most of the stuff floating around in civilian hands is all from the same few lots.
Most of the IVI 5.56mm I've seen in civlian hands is marked 92 also. I wouldn't be surprised if some was sold to a party other than the CF that year.
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mudgunner49
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Bravo Sierra - lots were surplussed and sold, and I've seen it at gun shows with proper documentation...
I bought a bunch of this stuff from the Red Deer gun show this year for my sterling. For shts and giggles I put a few mags through my CZ75 Shadow. WOW was the muzzle flash ever huge and recoil was a little more snappy than the BDX combat master ammo I normally shoot. FUn stuff but not sure if its good for long term use in a pistol.?
I ran some '67 through my M&P a while back - good stout ammo. There seems to have been a change in the early '90's - prior to the US adopting the 9mm, all NATO 9mm was 124 grain and somewhere in there (late '80's early '90's) a 115 grain load appears to have been standardized.
"...reasons why the pistols in general service are poor performers..." It's because those who get issued pistols rarely shoot 'em. Has nothing to do with the ammo(albeit being poor ammo to start with) or the pistol. In any case, there's no such thing as SMG ammo and pistol ammo. IVI ammo isn't '+' anything.
"...Winchester white box..." Is low end stuff.
"...C1 is little-seen..." Scrapped and destroyed long ago now. Classic example of the fiscal irresponsibility of the Socialist F**ks.
"...Winchester white box..." Is low end stuff.
"...C1 is little-seen..." Scrapped and destroyed long ago now. Classic example of the fiscal irresponsibility of the Socialist F**ks.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
9mm Canadian IVI was some hot stuff. Rumoured to have been chronographed at 1500 fps from an eight inch barrel.
At a foreign weapon familiarization hosted by our US friends at CFB Petawawa, the senor weapons technician literally pitched a fit when he discovered us Canucks loading NATO spec 9mm (meant in retrospect only for the Stens and Uzis) into thier then brand new M9 Beretta magazines.
How were we to know the newest American 9mm service pistol was substandard to NATO spec' (in the year 1988) ??
At a foreign weapon familiarization hosted by our US friends at CFB Petawawa, the senor weapons technician literally pitched a fit when he discovered us Canucks loading NATO spec 9mm (meant in retrospect only for the Stens and Uzis) into thier then brand new M9 Beretta magazines.
How were we to know the newest American 9mm service pistol was substandard to NATO spec' (in the year 1988) ??
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
I found the same thing, I believe the cartridge is +P+.
