January Purchases

GrantR said:
Not sure if you are talking about a M1917 Enfield rifle, or a Colt or S&W Model 1917 revolver, but on a revolver, the frame (upper left side, toward the rear) was the "regulation" location for the C/|\ ownership mark - I can't say for sure with specific reference to M1917 rifles, but it does appear on the receiver of at least some Lee-Enfields and other military rifles, IIRC ...

yeah, the rifle....M1917. Mine is stamped on the side if the rear sight flat....
I have a S&W M&P that has the correct stamp in the correct spot...but like claven says, there are some asshats out there that like to stamp things....:)
 
Claven2 said:
i suspect you could order them from Canada. I don't think there's as much problem ordering from a fellow Commonwealth country.
Sadly, no. :(
Ask Andy about the 8mm Woodleigh 250gn bullets I tried to send to him.
You need a permit from the Dept of Defence to import or export bullets from anywhere.
Crazy, huh? :confused:
So in the long run it's just easier to get them from the Hornady importer here in Oz.
And I haven't even gone into the tales of woe about Australia Post's recent move which means you can't have firearms or firearm parts sent or received postally overseas.:rolleyes:
Basically destroyed a deal I had with catnthehatt for a nice barrelled action and new 7mm barrel.:mad:
Made it way too expensive.

BTW, my almost 3yr old son told me I had to put these dancing bananas on here. ;) :dancingbanana: :dancingbanana: :dancingbanana:
 
Just picked this little puppy up today. She's a matching 6" .38-200 S&W M&P Pre-Victory made in 1940, and guess what? UNISSUED ;) Only sign of wear is the cylinder stop line from cycling the action. Even the case colors & blueing are 100%. And Canadian marked, too.

I swabbed the cosmolene out of the barrel and cylinders myself earlier tonight... came from an estate with a bunch of other really old pristine S&W's that I couldn't afford... :(

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Claven2 said:
Just picked this little puppy up today. She's a matching 6" .38-200 S&W M&P Pre-Victory made in 1940, and guess what? UNISSUED ;) Only sign of wear is the cylinder stop line from cycling the action. Even the case colors & blueing are 100%. And Canadian marked, too.

I swabbed the cosmolene out of the barrel and cylinders myself earlier tonight... came from an estate with a bunch of other really old pristine S&W's that I couldn't afford... :(

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Tell me you aren't going to shoot that....PLEAASSE! She is a beauty to behold! Great camera work too BTW....
 
Claven2 said:
Yep, same as .38 Webley.

And it'll gt shot - gently. It's what it was built to do, after all.

When you get tired of it let me know! I see our arrows are stamped on a different angle.....mabey that's why it wasn't issued, didn't pass inspection:)
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PerversPépère said:
Oh, wow!
Where can I find an M-39 such as this one? any address? Jean Plamondon has no more :(
PP.

Only dealer with any M39's at all is Collector's Source. Careful though - they are priced commensurate with their uncommonality ;) ($500).
 
Claven2: That is, indeed, a beautiful Smith & Wesson revolver! :D (Closest thing to a "green with envy" icon available here ...)

For further clarification on the caliber, the British .380-200 service revolver cartridge was a military version of the existing .38 S&W cartridge (not was changed to a 178 gr. jacketed bullet quite early on (resulting in the MKII the .38 Special, of course). The regulation projectile of the MkI cartridge cartridge) due to concerns that the original 200 grain non-jacketed bullet offended the Hague Convention proscription on expanding bullets in war.

The even lighter bullets normally used in commercially loaded .38S&W ammo - in the 145 to 150 gr. range - will impact in a different location - I think lower - than the heavier military bullet. I'm wracking my brain to remember for sure which is which ... but IIRC, all other things being equal, a lighter/faster bullet exits the barrel quicker, thus being less affected by muzzle rise, and therefore will tend to print lower ... :confused:

I believe that the name ".38 Webley" is, indeed, also applied to this cartridge ... but it is not to be confused with the venerable (mid 19th century) British ".380 Revolver" cartridge, which had a heeled, outside-lubricated bullet, and which is similar to the old .38 Short Colt cartridge, which was apparently developed from it ... Don't you just love the confusing world of firearms cartridges and terminology? :runaway:
 
Yeah, I have both lead .38-200 projectiled military ammo, cupro-nickeled .38-200 ammo and even some copper jacketed .38-200 DC Cnadian ammo.

Interestingly, I have headstamps on these that say:

.380
.380-200
.38-200
and even .380 Revolver MkII on a Dominion Arsenals package!

depending on maker, year, etc.

So what's the "most correct" way to refer to the caliber in your opinion?
 
Claven2 said:
Yeah, I have both lead .38-200 projectiled military ammo, cupro-nickeled .38-200 ammo and even some copper jacketed .38-200 DC Cnadian ammo.

Interestingly, I have headstamps on these that say:

.380
.380-200
.38-200
and even .380 Revolver MkII on a Dominion Arsenals package!

depending on maker, year, etc.

So what's the "most correct" way to refer to the caliber in your opinion?

It was called 38S&W for over 100 years.....how about that?:)
Only the stupid british would change the bullet and call it something of thier own......at the end of the day it's the same old cartridge it always was.
 
Claven2 said:
So what's the "most correct" way to refer to the caliber in your opinion?
In my opinion, the most "historically accurate" way of referring to the military round would be as the ".380 Service Revolver" cartridge, which I believe is what the British would have been most likely to call it if they felt any need to make it clear that they weren't talking about the old ".380 Revolver" cartridge. Perhaps needless to say, however, during the time-frame these revolvers were in service, the military community would probably have referred to it simply as the ".380" - at least in conversation - since everyone would know what they were talking about ... And I suspect that, except for supply requisitions, inventory manifests and the like, they sure as heck didn't speak (or write) of them as "Cartridges, Small Arms, Service Revolver, .380 Inch, Mark IIZ", or whatever ... :p

Hitzy: ".38 S&W" is probably as good as anything nowadays, for a "shooter' at least, because that is really the only ammunition commercially available for these revovers anymore. However, by changing both the projectile and the propellant, the British did create a new service cartridge - at least in their eyes - and of course it just "wouldn't do, Old Boy" to keep calling it .38 Smith & Wesson, when their minds seem to have needed to think in traditional War Department jargon ... :rolleyes:

Their purpose in messing with the cartridge in the first place was to attempt to have a reduced-caliber cartridge comparable in "stopping power" to the .455 cartridge with its 265 gr. bullet. They purportedly achieved that goal, at least with the original 200 gr. lead bullet moving at higher velocity than the .455, but in actual service during WWII the round (now loaded with a lighter jacketed bullet, of course) definitely got a reputation for being anemic ... Anent that, read on ....

Years ago (more than I care to admit) when I was in university in Edmonton, there was a big hullaballoo over the ineffectiveness of the obsolete .38 S&W revolvers (including some Webleys inherited by the EPD from the old City of Strathcona when they amalgamated, IIRC) still being carried by the members of that force, as a result of a most unfortunate incident. Two police officers on foot were approaching a bank robbery in progress (my recollection is that they were unaware it was going on, and were simply on foot patrol, not actually responding to the crime) when the culprits came charging out of the bank. One fired at the officers with the shotgun he was carrying (loaded with birdshot only, as I recall). They took most of the pellets in their legs, and went down. At quite close range, both of them emptied their revolvers (presumably we are talking commercial-spec .38 S&W ammo here) into the rear of getaway car as it pulled away. When it was located abandoned, it was discovered that most of the rounds had struck the vehicle - two or three of them even hitting the rear window. None of them penetrated either the metal skin or the window! :eek:
 
GrantR said:
When it was located abandoned, it was discovered that most of the rounds had struck the vehicle - two or three of them even hitting the rear window. None of them penetrated either the metal skin or the window! :eek:

Hello,

I know a few Armoured Corps vets from WW2 who carried both the Victory model and the so called tankers model in .380 enfield. They all said that it was a joke. They didn't actually expect it to do anything if they ever needed to use it. When the BHP came out late in the war they were all over joyed to have it.

Cam
 
When shooting a unopened pop can, I may have once had a current Remington .38S&W out of my Enfield fail to penetrate. It fell off the target frame and there was a big dent in the bottom where the metal is thickest. However, I really have trouble believing this was the case, I like to think that the bullet hit the frame itself and the can just fell off and was dented on the ground.
 
Well, I have a bunch or surplus ammo, and it does seem snappier than the commercial stuff.

Bear in mind, for liability reasons, the commercial stuff is designed to be shot in 1870's top-break BP revolvers without causing blow-ups. You know, the old "lawyer load" kind of thing.

Luckily though, I only need to kill paper with mine ;)
 
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