Jus' Wondering... Deploying to A'stan... What optic would you choose for C7A1 / C8

has anyone tried the USO SN4 - seems to fit the bill: 1-4x, illumination available, and choice of reticles. Lists in the US at around $1200.
 
Notwithstanding Slavex being his normal "####" self..... (good to see you too!)

Has anyone given serious consideration/evalutation to the 1-4.5X Trijicon "AccuPoint"? Yes, it is a large rig that takes up a lot of room on the rail. But it also seems to be pretty decent. And not a whole lot larger than the almighty SB Short-Dot.

I ask because I am headed back over in Feb 08, and am determined to sort myself out with some decent kit this time. I went " old school" on the last go-around, and while it wasn't the end of the world I reckon I can do better this time. Especially with the added bonus of the tax-break.

Current thought has me debating the Trijicon with "doughnut of death" BAC (played with it), versus the EOTech (have one), versus the Accu-Point (played with it), versus the "all-bow-down in subservience" S&B Short-Dot (never seen it, but am offered a demo at half-price).

So what's the skit? I want the best of both worlds. I intend to run the rig at 1x, but desire the ability to very quickly zoom in for positive target ID and/or precision shots. I will also have an Elcan Spectre DR enroute in the near future for demo purposes, but am led to believe that it is heavy, bulky, and prone to existing Elcan shortcomings (eg. the external mount). Though it seems like the perfect compromise for all of the above.....

So - anyone with recent real-world trigger-time have any insight regarding what has worked for them? I'm not interested in weekend range sessions - I do those on a regular basis. The last time I did this for real, the bone-stock C8A1 with iron sights was cutting-edge. I'll be packing a C-8 HB on the next go-around, and expect some trigger-time. So I'm looking for some "all in one" CQB and med-rge optics options. Kevin? Reaper?

Edumacate me, please....
 
well I know that you specifically stated you didn't want weekend range session info, buuuuutttt, I am going to give you my thoughts anyhow.

I've played with so many various configs on so many different AR's it's not funny. Sparrow, Juliet Lima, Kevin, etc etc etc have been dumb enough to let me play with their gear, as well as I've Got Too Much Money Walter, and in my honest opinion the S&B short dot gives you all the things you are looking for, without having to carry either two scopes or two rifles, one with a CQB setup and one with a magnified setup. The Short Dot was quick and easy to acquire targets, not too large for moving, and a snap to deal with. Our local PD went with the Reflex sights, and while neat, I wouldn't want to use one for anything other than their patrol rifle stuff. In fact I bet had they had the money you'd see S&B's on them too.
In talking to a few people (mostly Kev) about real world use of the S&B's they seem to very durable for real world use, not the gunroom to car to range and back use that I put stuff through, which is nice to hear, cuz they cost a ####ing arm and a leg. Hence the reason I am currently running an Aimpoint Comp M3 (without the rubber booty either damnit).
I am sure you are going to hear Kev chime in on this, and maybe a few other real world users, but I would expect them to simply praise the S&B for it's durability and adaptability.
Now if someone could just make some slave labour knock offs of it, I'd be happy.
 
I'd run a Short Dot or ACOG w/ Dr. Optic on top.

Currently I'm running a Short Dot on a Larue 1.93. Normally I leave it on 1.1x, however during static stuff I crank it to 4x.
 
I played with the TR21 Accupoint.
I put it above the NF for Army work.

Mark -- I'd take John on his half price deal on the Short Dot, however I know someone selling one for less than a NF1-4 goes for...
Failing that I can loan you the one I lent Hoddie.


FWIW by my math the Short Dot not nearly twice the price of the NF -- and honestly the NF rips you off for the price due to the lack of capabilties

Units buying the NF are not screwed like the civilians -- since NF Mil scopes have a zero stop and they are working on the illumination of the reticle - just not the civilian/LE line up.


As to the how and why of a fully illuminated reticle Jeff Carpenter went on a nice commentary on Lightfighter...
For the square range there is nothing wrong with a non-illuminated reticle, or a reticle that can't be seen during bright day light, with use of white light, etc.

For people who are operating outside the controlled enviornment of a square range, an illuminated reticle that can be seen under all conditions can be more of a "need" than a "want".

A couple examples of this is:

-Consider going up a stair well with your CQ/T a bad guy has on dark colored clothing. You and a couple other members all have your 9 volt surefire lights aimed in on him. He won't listen to commands. You can't find your reticle because the lights are bright enough to wash out the illuminated reticle and the black reticle is blending in with his clothing. This happened to an Officer I know who use to use the CQ/T.

-Often times, when it's bright outside bad guys, like cockroaches, like to hide in dark areas (barricaded gunman inside a dark house, suspect hiding in a salvage lot under a pile of wrecked cars, under a sheets of plywood leaned up against a fence, in a dark secluded breezeway, etc). If you under the bright sun light in the middle of the day and the suspect is in a dark area, you may not be able to see the reticle as the sun light will wash out the illumination and it's extreemly difficult / sometimes impossible to see / find a black reticle against a dark background.
Click to expand...

It was specific to the Leupold CQT -- however the issue is applicable to any non "aimpoint bright" reticle
 
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Hi guys, new to the board, came here from Lightfighter (same name on there). I'm in the same dilema as some of you. I was on 1-06 and used irons but plan on going on 1-08 and looking for something better.

Specter DR seems the best aside from the mounts (come on larue!). SB is a bit out of my price range right now. I am seriously looking at the TA31 DOC. Does anyone have any first hand experience with it and also a comparison between it and the SB?

Thanks
 
Ok... quick question... can you put your own items onto your rifle? Sights, rail, lights, foregrip, sling? I know the CF supplies most of it... but not everyone gets the gucci kit.

I beg that the Gods forgive me if this has been asked before.
 
Ice14 said:
Ok... quick question... can you put your own items onto your rifle? Sights, rail, lights, foregrip, sling? I know the CF supplies most of it... but not everyone gets the gucci kit.

I beg that the Gods forgive me if this has been asked before.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure as to official regulations, however, I do know that many troops have some level of customization on their personal weapons. Be it a self bought forgrip, flashlights or whole out handguards and optical sights.

The late Cpl. Payne with his C8 carbine providing VIP secuirty to BGen. Fraser.
ar2006a0150001aar1.jpg

Troops from the PPCLI on the range confirming their zeroing.
ka2006r106aakm4.jpg

Soldier with an ACOG, RAS handguards and a doctor mini-holographic sight.
picsxf9.png
 
I'm thinking about the TR21 Accupoint too.

Anyone running one on an AR? I'd like to see a pic of one mounted to get a better idea of the size.
cheers
 
Very refreshing to know the CF will allow or at least "look the othe way" when it comes to mods to the c7/8's.
Guys..we have a forum on ar15.com specifically for deployed troops. There is a hell of a lot of great intel over there.
If you aren't a member of arfcom (WTF????) and want any questions posted, let me know or Kevin.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=132
 
reddot said:
dangertree... that's why I asked if it's a SFW because the stock C8 has the 14.5" barrel. :)
Click to expand...

I am not at all sure as to it's length or model type but here's a stock C8 to compare it to.

ar2006h0160034aci1.jpg
 
If it wasn't for the unreliable mount, the Elcan is ideal for 0-500m.
I know that with the new Gen 4 mounts installed, the Elcan no longer falls apart from recoil at the firing range, but how are the new Gen 4 mounts performing in the field?


Also: I recall that someone walking with an unencased compass would be easily be spotted by even 1st generation commercial nightvision devices. Isn't there the concern that all those flashlights, red-dot scopes and tritium sights give away your position to the enemy at night, or is the assumption that the islamic insurgents have no access to night vision?
 
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