Just bought me a M-1878 Martini-Henry 577/.450 ---- It Arrived -----UPDATED
- Thread starter Pblatzz
- Start date
- Location
- Algoma region
If shes one of the Nepali ones, please have a certified gunsmith examine it fully before you fire it.
That said....please post pictures when she arrives!!!
That said....please post pictures when she arrives!!!
+2 on having a good gunsmith check it out.....But be careful...If it`s a Nepalese Gahendra Martini-Henry Rifle, then it probably will be useless to shoot....In the U.S. you can pick up an "untouched" one for about $150.00....Untouched does not always mean that it`s in pristine condition....
Well, yes, some do exist....Last year I bought a 1885 MH that was one of 5000 that was shipped to Canada from the Brits...Enfield marked, class 1, mark 1V....The buttstock is marked 5th BCR (British Columbia Rifles)....Shortly after they arrived in Canada, the government switched to the Snider, and the MH`s were packed away, most were never shot....Mine cost $500.00 cdn....I had a gunsmith check it out, and he doesn`t believe that it`s ever been shot...Epps has a guy that will reload the cartridges for you (blackpowder, of course)....
Ahem...It`s Mark 111....Short lever....
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$500.......Sweet.
i posted this in milsurp maybe ill get more luck finding some info on the MH 1887 i bought recently for $350
its a Mk IV . but was told on milsurp forum that they were never issued in Canada , evidently they were according to this thread .
any info on the butstock markings would be awesome.
the letters look like F C D
then 538 in small numbers
and 364 in numbers the same size as the FCD
and possibly a struck out 151 below that .
thanks in advance
- Location
- Algoma region
She looks beauty, Strip that she devil down, and clean her, all the rust from the steel and the vile varnish from the wood
Fine looking rifle there!!! If she locks up tight and the barrel is not rotted to liberalism she should muck out to be quite the shooter...
"my long lever shoots better then I do"
Cheers on you and your new find both!!!!!!!
I myself cannot imagine a beter field rifle then a proper functioning martini henry!
Cheers
Rob
Fine looking rifle there!!! If she locks up tight and the barrel is not rotted to liberalism she should muck out to be quite the shooter...
"my long lever shoots better then I do
"Cheers on you and your new find both!!!!!!!
I myself cannot imagine a beter field rifle then a proper functioning martini henry!
Cheers
Rob
Airwolf - just to clarify a bit .... Snider-Enfields were the primary-issue rifles of Canada's military continuously from their arrival in 1867 until we re-armed with the magazine Lee-Enfield rifle in 1896-97. So it wasn't a case of "switching" to the Snider (which wouldn't make sense, since it was the more obsolete design) ..... rather, it was a case of deciding not to issue the Martini-Henry rifles which had been acquired, thus leaving our militia forces armed with the Snider-Enfield.
I have a pretty nice Canadian-marked ("D.C. in diamond" property stamp) Mk III rifle from the 1885 purchase -
Canada had acquired 2,100 Mark I Martin-Henry rifles some years earlier, in 1874 - most of which were also never issued (one notable exception being the 100 or so rifles issued to the Royal Military College.) Interestingly, these 1873-dated Mark I rifles were produced before the final specifications for the Mark I had been finalized (in 1874), after which the British War Department directed that all previously issued rifles be returned to be altered to the final specifications ... which included replacing the early bronze breechblock hingepin with a steel pin. Because the Canadian Mark I rifles had simply been squirreled away in Stores, they were never "upgraded" under this directive, and thus constitute the majority of unaltered early Mark I Martini-Henry rifles left in the world.
I recently acquired one of these Mark I rifles, as well -
Your earlier information is correct - Mark IV Martini-Henry rifles were never acquired by Canada - just the Mark I and Mark III rifles received in 1874 and 1885, respectively ..... and as indicated above, most of them were never issued.
Hello Grant. I was the one who had advised that the Mk.4 had never been issued or used in Canada. Nice of you to verify my comment. I have always been of the understanding that the steel pin in the Mk.1 had been replaced by the later bronze split pin to cure any corrosion problems and to eliminate the pesky small locking screw used to keep the steel pin in place. My Canadian Mk.1 still is in original configuration and has the steel pin and keeper screw. My information comes "word of mouth", not from a M/H bible. David
David:
I am rather confused - and intrigued - by your post. Are you saying that you have a Mark I Martini-Henry rifle with a solid (i.e. un-split) steel pin retained by a keeper screw? As I understand it, that would be an odd duck indeed. In any event, your impression that an earlier steel axis pin retained by a keeper screw was replaced later in the development process by a split bronze axis pin (without keeper screw) reflects some definite misunderstanding, I'm afraid ....
it was a solid bronze pin retained by a keeper screw which effectively came first. The directive to replace the bronze pin with a split steel axis pin (thus eliminating the need for a keeper screw) was not made until well into 1874, and that modification was officially adopted with publication of the final "Approved Pattern" Mark I specifications in the List of Changes 16 July 1874. Indeed, all "Approved Pattern" Mark I rifles (including earlier pattern rifles which got upgraded to that pattern in accordance with the War Department directive) - as well as all Mark II, III and IV rifles - should have a split steel axis pin -
According to David Edgecombe ("Defending the Dominion: Canadian military Rifles, 1855-1955") all known Canadian-purchase Mark I rifles are the "second pattern", none of which got returned for upgrading to the Approved Pattern, and thus should have the solid bronze axis pin - as well as the earlier large cocking indicator -
(All known Canadian Mark I rifles show no evidence of removal of the very early action safety, which had in fact already been eliminated from production before the Canadian rifle order was placed in December of 1873.)
As a side note - if there was any sort of corrosion issue involved in the variation of the axis pin, it strikes me that it would actually have been attributable to galvanic reaction between dissimilar metals - i.e. the original bronze pin and the steel receiver - rather than from contact between two steel parts. After all, the other parts of the Martini-Henry action (and most action types, for that matter) which contact each other are all made of steel ....)
I do gather from some oblique comments in certain references that at least some of the "first pattern" - which was actually not even called the Mark I in official documentation but has come to be considered to be the earliest pattern of Mark I rifle - may have had a steel pin, but I am not clear on that nor on the configuration of the pin (i.e. split or solid.) In any event, the Second (Final) Trials Report, presented 8 February 1871, indicates that the block axis pin was "to be made of gun metal [i.e. bronze], to be a simple pin, kept in position by an ellipse or keeper screw". Apparently that pattern of pin was supposed to be retrofitted to the relatively few rifles produced earlier without it.
You describe your rifle as a "Canadian Mark I in its original configuration", but if it has an un-split steel axis pin retained by a keeper screw, I would speculate that the original bronze pin has in fact been replaced at some time with a steel one machined to the same dimensions. Can you post pictures of your receiver and axis pin?
Also, does your rifle have Canadian markings ("DC in diamond" or otherwise) - Canadian-marked rifles being relatively uncommon, as I understand it - or is your identification of it as Canadian based on other factors?
I am rather confused - and intrigued - by your post. Are you saying that you have a Mark I Martini-Henry rifle with a solid (i.e. un-split) steel pin retained by a keeper screw? As I understand it, that would be an odd duck indeed. In any event, your impression that an earlier steel axis pin retained by a keeper screw was replaced later in the development process by a split bronze axis pin (without keeper screw) reflects some definite misunderstanding, I'm afraid ....
it was a solid bronze pin retained by a keeper screw which effectively came first. The directive to replace the bronze pin with a split steel axis pin (thus eliminating the need for a keeper screw) was not made until well into 1874, and that modification was officially adopted with publication of the final "Approved Pattern" Mark I specifications in the List of Changes 16 July 1874. Indeed, all "Approved Pattern" Mark I rifles (including earlier pattern rifles which got upgraded to that pattern in accordance with the War Department directive) - as well as all Mark II, III and IV rifles - should have a split steel axis pin -
According to David Edgecombe ("Defending the Dominion: Canadian military Rifles, 1855-1955") all known Canadian-purchase Mark I rifles are the "second pattern", none of which got returned for upgrading to the Approved Pattern, and thus should have the solid bronze axis pin - as well as the earlier large cocking indicator -
(All known Canadian Mark I rifles show no evidence of removal of the very early action safety, which had in fact already been eliminated from production before the Canadian rifle order was placed in December of 1873.)
As a side note - if there was any sort of corrosion issue involved in the variation of the axis pin, it strikes me that it would actually have been attributable to galvanic reaction between dissimilar metals - i.e. the original bronze pin and the steel receiver - rather than from contact between two steel parts. After all, the other parts of the Martini-Henry action (and most action types, for that matter) which contact each other are all made of steel ....)
I do gather from some oblique comments in certain references that at least some of the "first pattern" - which was actually not even called the Mark I in official documentation but has come to be considered to be the earliest pattern of Mark I rifle - may have had a steel pin, but I am not clear on that nor on the configuration of the pin (i.e. split or solid.) In any event, the Second (Final) Trials Report, presented 8 February 1871, indicates that the block axis pin was "to be made of gun metal [i.e. bronze], to be a simple pin, kept in position by an ellipse or keeper screw". Apparently that pattern of pin was supposed to be retrofitted to the relatively few rifles produced earlier without it.
You describe your rifle as a "Canadian Mark I in its original configuration", but if it has an un-split steel axis pin retained by a keeper screw, I would speculate that the original bronze pin has in fact been replaced at some time with a steel one machined to the same dimensions. Can you post pictures of your receiver and axis pin?
Also, does your rifle have Canadian markings ("DC in diamond" or otherwise) - Canadian-marked rifles being relatively uncommon, as I understand it - or is your identification of it as Canadian based on other factors?
