Just getting into Tactical shooting

nwgdutchie.

Why do you want something with a muzzle brake? Although you'll be ok in the tactical shoots it,ll probably keep you out of all other shoots.
Rules against brakes in alot of shoots.

And I think that the issue with the recoil is not a pain or bruise thing but a distraction from your concentrating on the target. One of the reasons I shoot a 6 BR for long range, better ballistics than the .308 and recoil half way between a .223 and the .308 lets you think of nothing but the bullseye.

Mike.
 
Ice-Pick said:
nwgdutchie.

Why do you want something with a muzzle brake? Although you'll be ok in the tactical shoots it,ll probably keep you out of all other shoots.
Rules against brakes in alot of shoots.

And I think that the issue with the recoil is not a pain or bruise thing but a distraction from your concentrating on the target. One of the reasons I shoot a 6 BR for long range, better ballistics than the .308 and recoil half way between a .223 and the .308 lets you think of nothing but the bullseye.

Mike.
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I have had a gun with a brake but I hate them.... the reason this was brought up was because i was trying to figure out why people were talking about lots of recoil on the gun...

I would ONLY put a brake on a gun that would kick harder then a heavy mag.. Or HUGE bore mag.

NwG Dutchie
 
Allen Gun Works said:
Just to put some closure to this misunderstanding.......

pazzo was nice enough to pm me some pics of his friends scope. Turns out it was a scope I sold. However, it wasn't a 5.5-25x56. It was a 4.5-18x56. It came apart where the two pieces of the tube join.

I had only seen this on other boards until this one. According to Falcon there was a very small lot of these that were manufactured improperly. Most of them failed and were replaced right away. This one fell into the serial number range and they were surprised it hadn't been replaced earlier. There have been no further problems with this line and they all fell into the same batch of serial numbers.

As far as the warranty "issue" goes......it took a couple of months to get a replacement as it just happened to be on the same order as the 5.5-25x56 that had the anodizing issue and then got held up further with the introduction of export paperwork for any scopes leaving the UK.

So, there is no problem with the 5.5-25x56 and the 4.5-18x56 two piece tube should not be a concern either. We have over 100 of them out there and only one broke.

Thanks to pazzo for sending clarification on that one.
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I have a 4.5 - 18 X 56 IR Falcon that I have had for over a year now. It is still BNIB and has yet to to mounted. I recently ordered the rifle that I plan to mount this scope on. This project has taken a bit longer than I planed.

I am trying to put a rifle/scope package together where I get maximum value for my shooting dollar. It will be a Savage 10FLCP in .223 (Accu-Trigger, AccuStock) + Falcon 4.5 X 56 IR Scope + High Quality Base & Rings (to be determined).

I hope this combination would be relatively cheap (with handloads) to shoot and provide a good basis for learning.

Is there a posted list of the Falcon scope serial numbers that had problems with the "two-piece" design? Was this problem resolved before the IR series was released? I think I have one of the first batch brought into Canada.


Jerry,
I appreciate your comments of the Savage AccuStock.


Thanks !!!!

Cheers,

Bill
 
Ice-Pick said:
And I think that the issue with the recoil is not a pain or bruise thing but a distraction from your concentrating on the target.
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Ditto; the bite's not the problem, it's the the bark ;-)

I've fired quite a few heavy-recoiling rifles (as many as I possibly could!), only two of which I can ever recall actually hurting me.

My .308W target rifle weighs more than 13 lbs and has a 30" barrel. I shoot it prone, with a heavy leather shooting jacket, with a sling, and with ear plugs and ear muffs. It has less recoil than a .243 hunting rifle, and less muzzle blast than a .30-30. Not only does it not hurt when fired, it's nowhere near hurting (maybe I should clarify that - the *recoil* doesn't hurt; being bent up and wrapped in leather bondage shooting gear on a hot summer day, is uncomfortable and does leave bruises... but maybe that's "too much information"? ;-)

And yet, there is enough "suddenness" to the recoil, that on some days I must work really hard to maintain mental focus and concentration so that when I cause a shot to be fired, it gets released properly. If I was to be shooting a .223 target rifle with 80-grain bullets, the recoil would be half; I would have learned to shoot well more quickly, and would have made better progress in my first three years shooting). And it would *still* be an advantage to me today to be shooting a rifle with half the recoil - I'd have fewer days where I needed 110% concentration in order to get all of my shots away "good".
 
Bojangles said:
I have a 4.5 - 18 X 56 IR Falcon that I have had for over a year now. It is still BNIB and has yet to to mounted. I recently ordered the rifle that I plan to mount this scope on. This project has taken a bit longer than I planed.

I am trying to put a rifle/scope package together where I get maximum value for my shooting dollar. It will be a Savage 10FLCP in .223 (Accu-Trigger, AccuStock) + Falcon 4.5 X 56 IR Scope + High Quality Base & Rings (to be determined).

I hope this combination would be relatively cheap (with handloads) to shoot and provide a good basis for learning.

Is there a posted list of the Falcon scope serial numbers that had problems with the "two-piece" design? Was this problem resolved before the IR series was released? I think I have one of the first batch brought into Canada.


Jerry,
I appreciate your comments of the Savage AccuStock.


Thanks !!!!

Cheers,

Bill
Click to expand...

The IR version was no affected.

Mike
 
nwgdutchie said:
So i am noticing alot of people talking about the recoil on .308?

From what I understand it is a low recoiling rifle. If the gun is a 12lb gun in .308 the the felt recoil would be significantly lett then my 8lb scoped 30-06 (which I have no problem shooting 50 rounds in a 5 hour sitting while shooting my 45/70 after every 3rd shot.

The felt recoil on my 30-06 is in the ball park of 21lbs
The felt recoil on my 45/70 is about 40lbs


I have also routeinly shoot a 30-378 aswell as his .300 saum of a friend of mines and also a 416 rigby. I feel these guns kick like bloody fricken mules but it is bareable... and enjoyable funny enough.

I an 6 foot tall and I weight 200lb and I am a athletic build.

When I shoot my 30-06 I don't feel or notice any recoil...Others have told my that it is a moderate recoil but i just don't feel it.

The reason I bring this up is because I don't think the recoil would be an issue for me at all... and if it could or would be would a muzzle brake a good option or will it affect the ballistics?

NwG Dutchie
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If you are holding it right, any 10+lb 308 will be fine on your build for 100+round days. I have had 120 girls(literally) out with my 10lb LTR, and with no previous firearms experience, and a little instruction put 20rnds through it with nothing but a smile left on their face. That is from prone. In other positions, the recoil is less of an issue.

A muzzle brake, on the other hand, will make things mighty loud, and may make you flinch.
 
If I were wanting to learn how to shoot really well, I would stay away from a .308. To paraphrase Bryan Litz, the Chief ballistician at Berger Bullets, "Many people do very well with .30 caliber rifles at long range. I have to ask: are they doing well because of the caliber, or in spite of it?

The 308 is a workhorse cartridge, but recoil and mediocre ballistics are big detractors. The 223 is easy to make work and has a fraction of the 308 recoil.

As to your choice of gun, buy whatever feels comfortable, but don't get sucked into thinking more expensive is more accurate in a factory rifle. they all shoot about the same. Frankly, there are many good used semi-custom guns out there in which many of the fundamental steps towards accurization have already been done. These are usually a better deal.

If money is not a huge factor, for gosh sakes do it right the first time. Pyssing away money on half-assed equipment will cost you more money in the end and many more hours of abject frustration. If it must be a tactical style rifle, then I would strongly suggest speaking with two experts: Alberta Tactical Rifle and V-Bull Precision. These guys will set you on the right path and will give you the straight goods. Ed Begg (V-Bull) is in the Fraser Valley, so he is very close to you and he is one of the directors of the Tactical Rifle shooting with the BC Rifle Association. He is also one helluva marksman judging by the number of trophies that bear his name with the BCRA.

Ed has - or has owned - every tactical/sniper rifle made. He can tell you where to spend your money wisely.
 
I also use a heavy TR type of shooting jacket, and my .308's recoil isn't an issue at all for me. That said, my next rifle will likely be a 223, they're cheaper to feed.
 
carbonrod said:
I have had 120 girls(literally) [...] with my 10lb [...] and with no previous [...] experience, [...] through it with nothing but a smile left on their face. That is from prone. In other positions, the recoil is less of an issue.
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Those girls might have come for the firearms instruction, but they stayed for your "recoil" in the "prone position".

Back on topic: if hunting is not an issue, I'd only take the .223 over the .308 for financial reasons - I really think people are making a big issue over .308 recoil. The first firearm I ever fired was a light Savage 99C hunting rifle in .308 and it took me all of two shooting sessions to get the hang of the recoil... Make a solid weld with your cheek and shoulder against your stock and make sure that the rifle slides nicely on your rest/bipod, no problem.
 
nwgdutchie said:
I dont want to sound pompass but money is not really the issue.

I don't want to spend 3-4K but what I liked about remmington is the fact that I can get so many different parts so easily to modify the gun.

Also I already own a Remmington and I love the feel of the gun when it shoulders. Remmington kind of has my heart because of how they shoot and feel so that is why I was leaning towards a factory rifle that i was going to do a trigger job and pilliar bed it and really learn to shoot before i get a custom gun. (belive me the self control is tough!)

The reason I am not too interested in .223 is because this not a hunting round that I would be interested in hunting here in BC. This is a legitimate hunting round in BC but I will agree to disagree on the ethics of shooting animals with this small of a caliber.

I am trying to get into municipal policing aswell so the tactical shooting or sniper shooting is what I would be interested in so the benchrest shooting is cool, but I am more intrested in the tactical long range stuff.

Thanks for the great feed back and please keep it coming!

Dutchie
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If you are looking for long range hunting as well, I would go with 2 rifles for what you want, I have a 308 that is good for packing around in the bush which is light enough that you can carry it all day if needed. For the days where I sit and glass large cut blocks I have a 338 Lapua that usually sits in the truck for the most part. I hunt BC and rarely get the opportunity to take game with the 338 as the game I have shot over the years is mostly under a 100yrds simply due to how close they came out of the bush to me.

It is quite the learning experience when shooting game at over 500yrds, where that first cold bore shot means everything. I wish you luck in finding a "all in one rifle", I couldn't find anything that wasn't a compromise from what I am using now.
 
Yeah I am not going to have a rifle for longrange stuff, and my 30-06 for hunting... It is like buying an amphibious vehical... they are ok at both but there is always a draw back from both sides

Dutchie
 
Most guys I know can shoot 308 all day and the recoil is a non-issue. As far as the 223 being cheap to feed...yes it is BUT, when you really think about it, how much do you think you're going to save? Go for (at the very least) the 308 and don't look back.
 
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